Ju Culture

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @compndzyntrest I’ve been confused by leibowitzs view of messiah. Did he think of the belief that it Will or will not happen empirically as irrelevant to the obligation itself?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides Is it a biblical law to follow rabbinical law making all rabbinical fulfillment biblical in terms of the obligation. I understand there is still a hierarchy for functional reasons.

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides So in a sense what is biblical and what is rabbinic is arbitrary for the sake of having a classification hierarchy? Why can’t it all be classified as rabbinic interpretation?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan But that divine imperative came to us in history. We create the framework of divine service because we were divinely commanded to do so and we accepted. Why is that wrong to say?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan But they didn’t make a commitment to something human or created, correct? They were responding to the divine imperative.

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides But what does Torah law actually mean? Is “You shall not murder” for example a Torah law in that it is a relatively simple idea that doesn’t require much explanation in its broadest sense?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan I’m saying that there was a point in history in which we accepted the Torah which obligated us in the system that you are saying constitutes the whole of the divinity of Torah. I’m genuinely trying to understand

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Is there not a divine imperative for the system to be put into action in the first place? Aka in history. Like what if Jews just decided out of thin air to write a book and call it Torah and make up a bunch of internally coherent laws? I don’t understand the symmetry breaker

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan You said human decision to observe is what give it divine status, so I’m asking does it’s divine status go away if we repudiate

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan I don’t understand, if humans decided to go against the Torah it wouldn’t have a divine status? I would think the question of which system of human conduct is the one that God ordained is partially a historical one

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Doesn’t the authority of the oral law depend on the truth of the system being commanded by God?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Doesn’t that substantiate it? Why would I care about any of these laws if they weren’t coming from God?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@Yingeman @NhavsMaimonides There have been ones who did that and they weren’t messiah

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@Yingeman @NhavsMaimonides I think he’s saying that performing miracles or changing nature is neither a necessary or sufficient attribute of messiah

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan I assume from the divine instruction and implementation of halakha

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Let’s say har Sinai didn’t happen theoretically- where does the normative obligation come from?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Isn’t har Sinai a question of history? If I can’t feel certain in the slightest of this event occurring I feel that my faith stands on weak foundations. basing my faith on probalistic history is a struggle I’ve always dealt with

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan So I guess we assume they used a different fruit before they knew what an esrog was, correct?

[Ju Culture @gregant19796452]

@NhavsMaimonides @oihjklhiwiu @AdlerYonatan Was it that pri etc hadar always meant etrog and they just didn’t have access to it or they interpreted it as referring to a different fruit that was available to them?