@RoyalHistGeeks They're also reliant on emotion and on some very naive assumptions about what people in power are or are not willing to do to preserve that power.
@HCBox @HRHKingLeon @RoyalHistGeeks Agreed. You have to take quite a naive attitude to human nature and realpolitik to assume he wasn't capable of x,y and z.
@SCGrandma77@NathenAmin Yes, quite. He could do no wrong. He absolutely wasn't looking for a pretext to disinherit the Princes.
Also, he invented legal aid, presumption of innocence wrote the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights, discovered germ theory, antibiotics and gave women the vote.
@PaddingtonBSH@SCGrandma77 I mean it doesn't help their case that whilst complaining about the other side basing their history on Shakespeare, they elevate a detective novel to the status of Holy Writ. Josephine Tey's Daughter of Time is treated as not just Historical Fact but the Word of God...
@inselratte @PaddingtonBSH@SCGrandma77 Yes. I've always found their version of Richard to be strangely passive. He just seems to sit around waiting for things to happen, and people try and kill for for no reason whilst he's just minding his own business.
@SCGrandma77@NathenAmin I don't understand the BBC reference in her screed. Is there supposed to be in on some conspiracy with the "Tudorites" and the BBC in collusion?
@NathenAmin I always find it funny that they complain about Tudor historians believing Shakespeare's version of history and yet cite a certain Josephine Tey novel as a totally reliable "historical source".
@AngelaTopping@SylviaBSo One of the contemporary Chronicles. Can't remember off the top of my head, but it might have been Croyland recounts that before "discovering" the precontract Richard was looking for other means to nullify the Princes claim and one of theose was declaring Edward IV illegitimate.
@Kahmanta1@NathenAmin Not so though: a person facing death would not have committed perjury at the eleventh hour, unless they could be certain of saving thier life in the process.
Lying under oath as a mortal sin, and Warbeck was facing death no matter what, so no point in lying.
@AngelaTopping@SylviaBSo Before the precontract, he was considering the idea of declaring Edward IV as illegitimate on the basis of some rumour or other.
@SylviaBSo Yeah. To be honest as someone whose examined marriage cases that kind of thing... wasn't unknown. I won't go into some of the "tests" they used to do when consummation was doubted.
Editing "Henry V's brother" the tentative title of my bio of John Duke of Bedford due out next year.
Also, what program do you use to create family trees?
@TKoppite@RoyalHistGeeks@CSkidmoreUK Ever heard of the Fieschi letter? Langley's explosive new "evidence" is about the same. A foreign observer claiming they'd met someone who was in fact a missing monarch.
Its old, but doesn't prove its true or give any veracity to the claims of the person it was about.
@RoyalHistGeeks@CSkidmoreUK James Ross has mine 😄
Also can we stop giving Langley so much credit? Historians suspected Richard was buried there for a long time, Langley just got the funding and backing for a dig then claimed she mystically sensed him.
She hasn't has as much like sniffing out Henry I