No I’m saying the promise of backend with almost not shot of getting it is often weaponized by lousy productions to not pay crew…which makes crew that have been through it much more focused on getting paid in the first place. Many feel that being paid is the equitable deal. Not saying it should be that way or that it can’t be both or there shouldn’t be a way for these folks to participate in such a big win.
I wonder if the Obsession discourse is going to result in a bunch of unpaid indie work in exchange for points that don’t pay out because most films aren’t profitable.
@CinemaPrincipia I was taught it’s important to pay the crew because they were so used to people trying to get them to defer so if you wanted to signal seriousness that was how, so that tracks.
Yeah I feel like not many people in this have missed rent while finishing a feature they made sure to pay the crew on and then keep watching the crew work different jobs as time passes. That’s not a good thing or a defense exactly, I say bonuses all around in this scenario, but it’s worth thinking about…
For every Barker there are 100s of filmmakers who risked it all with 6 figure budgets out of their own pocket and instead of box office smash hits they were financially ruined.
And yes, the crew was fed and paid !
Isn’t he trying to provide helpful perspective to the next folks? Artist to artist hey head up how this reads, not shilling for some exploitive system…
your addiction and capitulation to the hustle is not to be encouraged. you could care about the struggle for labor rights as much as you care about art
I guess maybe those careers are already disappearing. We certainly don’t operate inside that system, can’t even really imagine it. Nice to know it’s out there, with a century of history, though.
Will the new ‘way it is’ just be small groups making even smaller budget films, in the YouTube style and the old, larger, paid, guild system barely holding on with big shows? Is an Art Director or grip a career anymore? Hollywood is broken but if it goes so does that system.
This kind of mentality is why Hollywood should be rotting. I genuinely find this capitalist enablement abhorrent. It’s like parents saying “that’s just the way it is” to teenagers knowing full well it could be different but they gave up a long time ago because they gave into cynicism to pay the bills.
Remember when Keanu Reaves gave his crews over $75mil for all back-end profits? The Rock did a similar thing for his crews. Taylor Swift does that with her team and dancers. Dropout TV is exceptional in rewriting the way people get compensated on an annual basis for the growth that is associated with Dropout success. That’s because these are decent people who realize the inequity of a system that doesn’t negotiate for the people that support these projects to get a percentage upside on the take because our capitalist system is extractive like that. But these people prove there can not only be an awareness and acknowledgment of this dynamic but also a different path.
People like this guy who enable this disgust me and reinforce my feeling that we should tear it all down and rebuild it. Thank god for YouTube. Don’t come to me and complain about AI and how it’s going to destroy or hurt Hollywood when you have people like this with their cynical sanctimonious BS.
I feel like @LukeBarnett is probably trying to help the next promising young career about to skyrocket not stall with a social media post. I doubt he is defending everything about an admittedly complex and broken industry or suggesting we never talk about it.
You know you don’t have to write all this right?
Even if the film didn’t blow up the way it did, they were majorly taken advantage of and to act like they should just assume that good word of mouth will carry them forward in the industry is crazy
I’ve producer or managed over 30 features, and TV shows, many with studios, and I can say on ULB features (I have done around 8), you can negotiate ways to make people feel taken care of… back-end was offered on a project we did for 400k because rates were 400-550 /day
The part that’s challenging about this is the producers and director (and often writers) work on these movies for years, not a month. They write and develop the script, hire the crew, supervise the edit, complete post, hustle to get a festival premiere, work on the marketing. They stretch maybe a $40k-ish salary on this kind of movie over multiple years in the desperate hope that something like this happens. The crew, who I agree work very hard in their limited time on a movie, have often worked many new projects in between.
In our micro budget world, the ‘pro’ crew on the show gets a day rate and the folks linked to the project more personally and for years might forgo any salary and take points. This often means a writer/director makes less on their feature than a short term hire.
This is what’s missing from the conversation. An actual day rate on an indie is often preferable and a bare minimum sign of professionalism from the production company.
@pastelETH It depends on the production. There have been times where I’ve offered tiers: full day rate/no backend, half day rate/some backend, nothing up front for even more backend. Most of the time people choose their full day rate because indie films almost never make money.
food and drinks consumed in a movie theater doesn’t really go into your body. it goes into your movie theater body which is separate & holy and harm-proof