...

[... @ibmeue]

@rosaryofroses Then what should a Catholic do today? Where can they go?

[... @ibmeue]

@rosaryofroses What about during times of crisis when there are no other options. I heard that during the anglican persecutions Catholics could receive valid sacraments from anglican/ex-Catholic priests who had betrayed Christ becoming heretics and schismatics.

[... @ibmeue]

@rosaryofroses @M5134Mike @Burgess7281975 You can't write without a pen or pencil - either the pen or pencil is needed

The problem with the Pro-BoD stance is that they ignored the words of Our Lord (John 3:5), the very next line see pic.

A.I is also not reliable

[... @ibmeue]

@rosaryofroses @M5134Mike @Burgess7281975 But you are right on the grammer, Trent uses a negative statement and the word 'or' which in a negative can either mean BOTH or OR.

For example;

There is no marriage without a bride or groom - both are required

I can't drive my car without keys or fuel - both are required

[... @ibmeue]

@Burgess7281975 You earlier quoted St Augustine from City of God to affirm BoB. However in his later work against Julian St Augustine says (to paraphrase)

"Let it not be said that God would allow any of His elect to die before receiving the sacrament of the mediator"

Neither BoD nor BoB are

[... @ibmeue]

@Burgess7281975 Your understanding of Trent is wrong, neither statements teach BoD or BoB. Sacraments cannot be forced on people there must be desire for them involved.

Also you are confusing the speculation of some Saints as teaching of the Holy Mother Church.

St Augustine for example

[... @ibmeue]

@rowngarnbii @MattGaspers @askWallace @notredameparis Freemasons worship lucifer who is the devil. Their false pagan occult religion was created by the jews to subvert and take over societies, they have been very successful. They have openly said that the Church was their #1 enemy and Monarchy #2.

[... @ibmeue]

@CaptainMange @Burgess7281975 It's sad how you people cannot refute the information. Saints are not infallible.

[... @ibmeue]

@Burgess7281975 You are struggling to accept that Saints and theologians can make mistakes. I have already provided the relevant information.

[... @ibmeue]

@Burgess7281975 Eg.

I can't drive without keys or fuel (both is needed)

I can't write without a pen or pencil (only one is needed)

Trent immediately cites the words of our Lord, that unless a man is born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

[... @ibmeue]

@Burgess7281975 Finally Trent does not teach BoD. The statement "or desire" is on the decree on justification, not baptism. At most you might say that justification can be given by desire alone, however the use of "or" should be understood as meaning that both is needed and not or the other.

[... @ibmeue]

@SolitudeLight3 @Burgess7281975 You are just making stuff up now... if you can't discuss this honestly then I am not going to bother responding.

[... @ibmeue]

@NurseClaire2 What's with the anchor at the bottom of the Cross in the top left logo?

[... @ibmeue]

@ian11511 @IAltare @RealSedePicante @LuciusDomitiusz @DeoVolente019 @StARadtrad >specifically teaches BoD
>address to midwives
These 2 things are not the same.

There was also a Pope who said a person who wasn't baptised was still a valid priest, they were wrong.

Pope Pius 12th was a weak Pope, he appointed those cardinals who accepted V2.

[... @ibmeue]

@matthew_sede Yet some still claim that non-catholics can be saved outside the Church by the Church or outside the Church in the state of ignorance.