Manish Joseph

Product of Desi (con)Fusion |
From the world of atiShyoktis & contrAddictions | Farzi critique & language-history लवर | Moviezz-Muzzic-Food-Culture-बकर!

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Aamir Khan makes a good film Laal Singh Chaddha and keeps on self criticizing it. I found LSC to be a better theater experience still in aftertaste than all these Sitaare, Dunki, Jawaan or recent Main Vaapas Aaunga. Animal, chhava, dhurandhar are unwatchable with alpha man violence celebration & half truth manipulations.

[The Climax India @TheClimaxIndia]

“#Dunki didn’t connect because people haven’t faced Visa struggles “-#RajKumarHirani

#ShahRukhKhan #SRK

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Protein and nutrition is your best bet provided the genetics. People over credit food in isolation. 

If we look at healthy longevity :
Genetics: 30–50%
Active lifestyle: 20–30% 
Food choices: 15–25%
Other factors (sleep, stress, pollution, healthcare access, luck/random events): The remaining ~10–20%.

Grandparents did not have gyms, but life was their gym. They did not count protein, but they also did not sit all day with Uber Eats, laptop stress, late-night scrolling, and 24/7 snacks.

So the lesson is not 'old diet was magic.' 

The lesson is: their whole lifestyle was different.

New age adults may need new age solutions. So gym, weights, strength training and protein shakes ki zaroorat ab zyada hai shayad.

[Nandini Venkatadri🇮🇳 @NandiniVenkate3]

Protein is the latest fad.
My grandfather died at the age of 103. No Protein supplements. Only proper south Indian food. Same quantity every day. He used to have half a spoon methi seeds soaked in water the previous night, with a spoonful of curd, first thing in the morning.
Idli, dosa, sambar, sundal, Pesarattu has enough Protein for healthy living.
#Protein

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Even we go by this archaic outdated term, & exclude milk and eggs, India is more non veg than veg.
https://t.co/ZdexqKVM82

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Not so vegetarian india, as per NFHS-5

1. India has close to 20-30% vegetarians & possibly 10% egg eating vegetarians.(Ovo-Vegetarian)
2. Vegetarian men are less compared to vegetarian women. Close to 15-20% men & 30-35% women.
3. The proportion of meat/fish share is increasing in all states especially in states like Gujarat, where it is 40-45%.
4. Consumption frequency of meat is still once-twice in a week for most.
5. MP & UP have more eggs/meat eaters than vegetarians.
6. Rajasthan is the most vegetarian state, with ~ 70% ppl not eating meat. ~ 56% not even eating eggs.
7. Contrary to the famous Tandoori Chicken stories, Punjab's meat consumption is less. Close to 40-45%.
8. Other than Rajasthan , Haryana which makes 26 states & UTs, you have more chance of finding a person who eats eggs or meat than being vegetarian.

It's pretty clear from all the surveys of the last 10 years, that India is not a vegetarian country.

This map data based on nfhs survey possibly includes eggs with meat/fish in non-veg category, & that too for men, 15-49 age group.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

What many people don't realize is that milk is animal protein. So desis who consumed milk were never relying only on plants for protein. Like meat and eggs, dairy is also an animal derived food.

And if we are being honest, most animal derived foods come with some level of cruelty, control, or lack of consent. Chickens never signed up to give eggs. Cows and buffaloes never agreed to give milk. If eating meat has a cruelty story, then drinking milk and consuming eggs also have one.
Humans are selectively kind to animals. That is not necessarily hypocrisy alone, it is also survival.

If a bird builds a nest in my flower pot, letting it stay may kill the plant. If squirrels eat the bird food I kept outside, the birds lose their share.
If deer come and eat the flowers I planted with so much care, my kindness for deer suddenly clashes with my love for the garden.
What some call 'weeds' are also plants, just not useful, pretty, or important to us, so we get rid of them. Every living being survives at some cost to another. Nature is not innocent. It is wild.

But in the modern world, the old emotional desi claim over milk has become even weaker. Earlier people could at least say, 'We take care of the cow, feed it, and use the milk.' Even that was morally debatable. But today, most urban consumers don't care for the cows or buffaloes at all. Dairy industries do that work. Ab toh chaara bhi nahi dete usko. So the moral claim over milk is almost zero.

That is why bragging about being 'vegetarian' while consuming milk, curd, paneer, ghee, butter, cheese and sometimes even eggs is a farce. Desis were never purely plant-based. They just created categories like saatvik, pure, veg, non-veg to give food a moral and religious hierarchy.

A more honest modern view is this... food is food. Some food comes from plants, some from animals, some is processed, some is traditional, some is nutritious, some is excessive. You may avoid something because of taste, health, ethics, religion, environment, or personal choice, all valid. But the fake purity tag should go.

Remove this moral drama of 'veg' and 'non-veg'. Accept the truth. Milk is not morally superior to meat just because it looks white and sits in a steel glass.

[RAHUL @RahulSeeker]

Hindu vegetarianism practice does not derive from any notion of love towards living beings, but rather, it is a strategic practice of casteism that projects its victim as guilty, inferior, impure = untouchables.

Btw ancient Brahmins were not originally vegetarian. 👇���� 🧵 1/4

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Another perspective is that terms like vegetarian and non-vegetarian are archaic and outdated in the modern world. They are misleading because they make food sound like a moral binary, when food is actually a spectrum.

A better modern classification would be more honest... plant derived, animal derived, dairy derived, egg derived, meat derived, lab grown, fermented, processed, minimally processed, high protein, low protein, ethical, sustainable, (or unhealthy). That tells us much more than simply saying veg or non-veg.

Desi educated folks should initiate this conversation and stop using ancient terms like veg and non-veg as if they are scientific or morally neutral categories.

Also, why should meat, fish or eggs be described through a negative term like non-veg, as if they are deviations from the default? In many parts of India, more people consume meat, fish or eggs than not. Fish is normal in Bengal, Kerala, Assam, Goa and coastal India. Meat and eggs are normal in many communities across the country. So calling all of this non-veg quietly makes one food culture the default and everyone else the exception.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

@nomadsos Online research including Tony Joseph's analysis, Narsimhan et al, 2019, David Reiche studies, Shinde et al, Moorjani et al etc.
https://t.co/rz9wArhQBV

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Desi DNA: Three Layers That Bind Us

Behind the diversity of languages, regions, and cultures in the Indian subcontinent lies a shared genetic story built on three deep ancestral layers.

1. AASI : Ancient Ancestral South Indian

Time: Present since 40000-60000 years in indian subcontinent.
Origin : The great Out Of Africa migration, which populated the whole world. 
Role : Our base genetic layer across pan india ( not just south)

Found across indian subcontinent but stronger in:
Tribals, Andaman Nicobar
Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Odisha
South Indian states(Karnataka, Andhra, TN, Kerala) + Sri Lanka
States in East

(Some distant matches with Australian aboriginals and other out of africa ancestry)

2. IRAN_N or Iran Neolithic related or Zagros farmers

Time : Arrived 7000-4000 BCE
Origin: Farmers ( and herders) living in Zagros mountains in Iranian plateau. 
Role : Promoted Agriculture of wheat and barley.

Interesting note:
Present significantly in Indus Valley Civilization people(3300-1300 BCE) & then spread across whole of India. (Indus Valley Civilization itself was however more a combination of AASI + IRAN_N). 

Found across indian subcontinent but strong in:
Western Coast - Gujarat, Maharashtra, Goa. Northwest, indus region and Pakistan

3. Aryans or Steppe_MLBA or Indo Iranian

Time: Arrived in 2000-1500 BCE(post Indus civilization decline)
Origin : Kazakhstan / South Russia / Ukraine region. Associated with Yamnaya, Sintashta, Andronovo cultures.
Role: Associated with bringing Indo-European language roots, especially Vedic Sanskrit roots,
& Early Vedic culture roots. Pastoral traditions. Present more in upper castes.
Migration path: Steppe - Central Asia - Afghanistan - Northwest

Found across Indian subcontinent, but strongest in:
Northwest India, Punjab, Haryana,
Himachal Pradesh, Jammu & Kashmir,
Rajasthan
Decreases gradually toward South and East

Interestingly matches with the genome which allows easy dairy/lactase absorption(13910T), which also surprisingly matches with dairy habits of consumption (as well as production) being the highest in current north west, (coincidental relationship)

Modern desi population genome is a combination of above three, & classified in these two models:

1. ANI (Ancestral North Indian):

Iran_N + Steppe

More in the north and north west of india and in pakistan. Shows how pastoral and milk cuture is common. As well as influence from indo-European languages.

2. ASI ( Ancestral South Indian) :

AASI + Iran_N

More in south, central, tribal, east india. Less steppe.Where ANI and ASI genome is not strictly north or south and is present throughout.

Two significant regional layers:

1. Austroasiatic (East/Central India)

AASI + Southeast Asian ancestry

Time: ~2000–4000 BCE
Origin: Southeast Asia( Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos)
Found in: Jharkhand, Odisha, Chhattisgarh, Bengal

Introduced austro asiatic languages (Munda). Came in waves via east, opposite direction from steppe. Associated with Rice cultivation practices.

2. Tibeto-Burman (Northeast India)

Time: ~2000 BCE onward
Origin: Tibet / Southern China region

(Came via burma when coming from china. Came via Arunachal when coming via Tibet. Slightly less AASI mix.)

Found in: States in northeast India
Introduced sino tibetan languages.

Takeaways:

1. No one is "pure"
Most Indians are a mix of AASI + Iran_N + Steppe (in different proportions)

2. AASI is the deepest layer
Oldest ancestry, widely distributed

3. Iran_N is the civilizational backbone
Comes via Indus Valley and is present everywhere

4. Steppe is the language-cultural layer. Smaller in % but historically influential

'Indian subcontinent DNA is built on AASI roots, structured by Iranian farmers, shaped by Steppe migrations, and regionally enriched by eastern Austroasiatic and Tibeto-Burman influences'

[Srinivas Krishnan @SriniKay]

Superb thread. Warning: It's a rabbit hole and you may have to rethink your beliefs after reading this.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

@RahulSeeker On Buddhism, Jainism, & Vedic Hinduism. Comparison with protestant reformation.
https://t.co/Hjcco2bPz1

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

On Buddhism & Jainism early phase

Buddhism & Jainism were one of the earliest organized missionary religions, the way they chose to spread the word.

One of the prominent reasons of Jainism's origin was the angst against existing Vedic animal sacrifices and expensive rituals. Rituals & priests were being challenged. Common people needed an accessible & non lavish way of spirituality.

While both Jainism & Buddhism were aligned on the protest against rituals and priests, buddhism possibly even challenged the extreme choices of Jainism at that time. While Jainism focused on soul in every living being, buddhism explored the biggest question of humankind, the cause of human suffering & self discovery. These Sramana movements (also included caravakas & ajivikas) happened around 800-500 BCE in the later vedic period, when a lot of gangetic plains were getting urbanized.

While Jainism chose a difficult path of asceticism, Buddhism chose the middle path. Buddhism stood right at the middle of heavy vedic ritual sacrifices and extreme austerity of Jainism.

This way their origin can interestingly be compared to later protestantism(16th CE) which also came out from the angst against heavy ritualistic catholic practices driven by priests & not accessible to the common man.
And within that deviation another protestant separation happens with Buddhism choosing a different path ..kind of how like Lutherans/Anglicans chose a middle path.

Undoubtedly buddhism and jainism movements were the beginning, grand and later created separate religions. Buddhism traveled all over the world via merchant traders, monks & influence of leaders like Ashoka. However like most religions the core practices & beliefs kept on changing or evolving with time.

One common factor amongst vedic hinduism, jainism and buddhism at least in its initial phase was that they were primarily defining the way of life rather than focusing on Monotheism like Christianity and Islam.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

@swatiatrest Thanks for the recommendation. I will sure do.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Main Vaapas Aaunga also reminds us that for some, 1947 was Independence.
For others, it was Partition.

Aur bahut logon ke liye, dono ek saath thhe, azaadi bhi, barbaadi bhi.

Partition ko school mein mostly map, dates, Radcliffe Line, Mountbatten, Nehru, Jinnah, Gandhi ke through padhaya gaya. But uska real impact samajhne mein years lag gaye.

'We all were impacted' kehna easy hai, aur national level par true bhi hai. But it also hides the fact ki kuch communities ne Partition ko seedhe apne ghar, zameen, sheher, bhasha, culture aur identity par jhela.

Punjabis ke liye it was sudden violence, refugee trains, lost Lahore/Rawalpindi/Multan.
Bengalis ke liye it was a longer wound with East Bengal, migration, 1950, 1964, 1971.
Sindhis ke liye it was homeland loss without an Indian Sindh.
Kashmiris ke liye Partition became an unresolved conflict.
Assamese/Sylheti people ke liye it became border, migration, language and citizenship anxiety.

Partition sirf ek national event nahi tha. It was regional trauma, family memory, refugee life, lost homeland and identity crisis.

History tabhi samajh aati hai jab map ke saath insaan bhi dikhte hain.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Absolutely! And that brings our treatment to plants as food also into equation. We derive food from all forms of living life & without consent. Some form of cruelty, wild nature or human supremacy applies to all our choices.

The bigger issue with desis especially in north is giving leeway to milk products. Daal me bhi animal fat ka tadka diya hai, shuddh desi ghee ke naam pe. Kaahe ka vegetarian phir??
Kaahe ka 'ande' se bair wali nautanki?

All desis love animal protein and fat to the core. The issue is with accepting and realizing this & stop giving archaic and ancient tags to food like veg, non veg and most importantly controlling choices of others.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Why is religion even allowed inside the kitchen? Mera kitchen, meri marzi.

In that way our religions invade our privacy just like our jigri yaar & we love to oblige, rather than asking 'Atithi tum kab jaoge?'.

They are not restricted to prayer rooms, temples and churches anymore, they spread everywhere, people carry them everywhere with their already stressed life, in unrelated conversations, as carb in lunchboxes, schools mid day meals, as duvidha in politics & deshbhakti.

If our religious interpretation dictate us what to do and what not to do, even after we have become an adult, kya faayda adult hone ka? Ohh yeah for suggestions... religion waali baatein is most welcome, for understanding difficult situations of life via wisdom/gyaan, mossst welcome.

Jitna poocha hai, utna batao bhai.
Sukoon ke liye bulaya thha tumko, sar pe chadhke kyuu baithe ho?

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Not a big problem. Kids have the option to get anda in exam results. And that's a saatvik and shuddh desi homemade anda.

[Diva Jain @DivaJain2]

Most people whining about lack of eggs have never run an organization. Veg/Non Veg segregation is a logistical nightmare for a project of this scale.
Also Govt is under no obligation to help you meet your (expensive) protein goals.
If you want eggs/meat please eat them at home.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

@karthi_rangnath That's nice & good to knw... big chain?

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

Kamal is looking super cool, just like his acting style. That beard matches with this monochromatic look. Daring toh ranveer bhi karta hai, par kamal is daring yet minimalistic. I don't know why Janta(including most of us) wears, polo t shirts and jeans as uniform now. Kamal is like, i will set the trend, & you will follow.

[Kendrick @Kendrickkumaaru]

Rule of thumb: Every overdressed person has an underdressed best friend.

[Manish Joseph @itsmjhere]

@pundmentlyflawd O Nice.. i need to try something like that. 😀