Jay Vagedes

I probably don’t know what I’m talking about, but I’m about to tell you anyway.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

Option one: We don’t take things out of context and let a chapter like the Klan represent the fruit of the Bible and Protestant teaching. They were a fringe group of crazies who weren’t really following Christ, and don’t represent Christianity as a whole. I’d prefer this, but it means extending Brigham Young that same grace and context. One bad sermon doesn’t define a faith any more than one bad chapter does. We both move on.

Option two: You hold the line on Brigham, racist, therefore Mormonism is false. Fine. But then the same logic holds for you: the Klan is the fruit of Protestant teaching, the Bible, and Christianity as a whole. A century of lynching in Christ’s name, and your whole faith is false by your own rule.

You don’t get door one for your house and door two for mine. Pick the standard. It applies to both of us or neither.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

Hear yourself. “Baptized doesn’t make you a Christian”, so you decide which churchgoing, Bible-quoting, professing believers are the real ones. That’s the same authority the Klan claimed when they called themselves defenders of Christianity.

You keep proving my point. You get to read your worst out of the faith as “fake.” I don’t get to give mine any context at all. One set of rules for your house, another for mine.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

Jesus flipped tables on the money changers and called the Pharisees a brood of vipers. But look at who the Pharisees were: the religious insiders, certain they alone knew God, who looked at everyone else’s worship and called it counterfeit.

That’s you in this thread. Looking at a sincere old woman praying to Jesus and sneering that she doesn’t really know God. Loading up the burden of “you’re not the right kind of believer.”

Jesus didn’t flip tables on the grandma. He flipped them on the man so sure of his own standing that he’d disqualify hers. If you’re quoting the Pharisee story, make sure you know which character you’re playing.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

Stop. You just called the Klan “not real Christians”, millions of baptized, Bible-quoting, churchgoing Protestants, because they’re inconvenient. That’s the exact grace you refuse to give Brigham Young.

You get to disown your worst as “fake Christians.” I don’t get to give mine any context at all. Same move, and you only allow it for yourself.

That’s the whole point I’ve been making. Thanks for proving it.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

That knife cuts both ways. A Muslim says the exact same thing about you. Sincere, religious, and still doesn’t know God. You can’t see another person’s standing with God; you can only see their fruit. So either fruit counts, and that granny’s life of love and service counts, or no one’s does and you’ve disqualified yourself too.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@Bar_tolmi A simple no thanks would have sufficed I think… you just dumped a lot of emotional baggage on that poor dude.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

It’s not goofy at all. What’s goofy is you running the atheist playbook and not seeing the hypocrisy. You want to play the racism card? Fine, let’s play it. If the Bible is so good, explain how millions of its followers, mostly Protestant Christians, burned crosses and lynched Black people in its name. Mormons weren’t doing that. But I don’t come on X and use that as a weapon against anyone.

We can stop this anytime, agree there are doctrinal differences, agree we’re both trying to live the best life we know how, and move on. Or we keep throwing the same stupid stone back and forth like a couple of atheists. Your call.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@SwissArmySpoon1 @joshnaa2gez I would rather you shut your mouth and be an example of what it means to follow the Savior rather than bash 82 year old Mormon grandmothers who have more faith in their pinky toe than the lot of you have shown on this app.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@DocPriyamMD Glad I read the comments… I almost unlocked a new fear.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@realDrTT Agreed. I don’t know how many “Christians” bash the Mormons with the same crap atheists use against them, and then pretend like they are winning. We are on the same team, regardless of doctrinal issues.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@ergadia @TraviXai I don’t know if that is as big a refutation as you think. If I were a conman making up a book about the americas I would think I would throw a turkey or two in somehow.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@vxylily Thats a pretty tall list. You might have to go to an LDS church to find that kind of thing.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

“Cult” is just the atheist playbook with the volume down. You’re not refuting it, you’re running it. You just stop one rung short, because the next rung is your own house.

Made-up founder? They say that about the resurrection.

Borrowed scripture? The flood and virgin birth have older pagan parallels.

Spread by social control? Hell as the threat, shunning the heretic.

No proof? The science and archeology that buries the Nephites buries your Exodus too.

Every stone you throw lands in your own yard.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@eva_hodor @Other_Sheep_ The way some of you all act, I don’t think you know him at all.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@Verdadseeker4ev @Other_Sheep_ I’m sitting here wondering, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, when I made this blood oath you are speaking of. Are you high or something?

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

You again fall for the Atheist playbook. Which is to pick a Prophet and point to something bad “God” told them, and hold them to today’s cultural standards. Interracial marriage was a felony back then, 7 years to life in prison in many states. Brigham was a rough dude, but the right man for the job God gave him.

You hold him to a perfection you never demand from Bible prophets. Theirs, speaking for God, commanded child sacrifice, genocide down to the infants, stoning people for the Sabbath. If “product of his time” excuses that, it excuses Brigham. If it disqualifies Brigham, your prophets are disqualified first.

Context counts for everyone or no one. Pick one.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@DrOBrienMD Mormons don’t have a whole month of celebrations and they wouldn’t call you mormophobic if you disagreed with their life choices.

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

@RwBneck69 @garb0dad @dttpeople Bunch of Pharisees. I don’t mind someone calling out issues in the Book of Mormon. There’s a lot to wrestle with, but standing in the middle of the quicksand we are all in, and claiming superiority is absolutely unbelievable. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

[Jay Vagedes @JayVagedes]

I’m arguing like an atheist to make a point about your hypocrisy. When science presses on the Bible, you call it mystery and reach for faith. When it presses on the Mormons, suddenly science is the final word and faith is no excuse. You can’t run both plays. Either the archaeological record is a fair judge of scripture, in which case the Bible has a stack of bills to pay before you go pointing fingers, or it isn’t, and you’ve got no business using it as a club against others. I’m not asking you to accept our faith. I’m asking you to be respectful, and not a hypocrite.