jmrjam

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@JPuncut By what criteria is something classified as a demon? How do you apply those criteria to Marian Apparitions?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 Fair enough.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 Thank you for that. It seems like that statement is the Catholic position, that all glory is given to God.

That might be my confusion. It seems like an attempt to be distinct from Catholicism, but just ends up being Catholicism when defined?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 Then my hang up is this: if faith alone saves, but faith without works is dead, then faith alone is dead, but also saves.

Am I misunderstanding?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 Then you're right. If faith without works is dead, then I don't understand the meaningful difference between faith alone and the Catholic position.

How are the two distinct, from your perspective?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 You just said that faith requires us to conform our actions to what God requires of us. Those are works.

So faith alone is therefore not enough. We must live that faith through works, or else it isn't truly faith.

That is the contradiction. That is the OP point.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 What does obeying Him require of us? Just the desire to obey, or the conforming of our actions to obeying Him and not our own desires?

This is why I don't think it is a strawman. Just attempting to follow the premises to their logical conclusion leads to contradictions.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 What I'm trying to understand is this:
Faith leads to good works.
Good works are not required.

Questions that raises for me:
Can we have faith without good works?
If I think I have faith, how do I know what that faith requires of me?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 what percentage of my works need to be "good" over what period of time?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 How do I know which of my works are evidence of true faith?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 Sure. But for someone to be sure of their salvation through their faith, they would be doing works, right?

Or am I missing something?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @WearForbidden I’m sorry you’ve decided to ignore our conversation. I wish you well. Godspeed.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 So we don’t have to do works, but we will be doing works?

What is the relationship of works to salvation, if any?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@EmDDubya @Catholicizm1 So faith is proved through works? Therefore, works are required, in that if you aren’t doing works it proves you don’t have faith.

Am I getting that right?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@DoubtingDeacon @Gillenkirk8975 @FeserEdward This is an ends justify the means argument.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @HockleyTyson @JakeLang @RabbiShmuley Did you lose track of our thread? Or are you declining to continue our conversation?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @A1exanderB @grok @clappy22 @BowTiedRanger @PackageGuy747 @iamadogthough ?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @A1exanderB @grok @clappy22 @BowTiedRanger @PackageGuy747 I’m attempting to steel man your position, to ensure I am not misrepresenting you.

If I stated your position accurately, the next question is: where do you find that position in scripture?

If I didn’t, please correct me on what your position actually is.

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @A1exanderB @grok @clappy22 @BowTiedRanger @PackageGuy747 Ok great. So anything that isn’t explicitly stated in scripture can’t be validly interpreted from scripture. Is that your position?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @A1exanderB @grok @clappy22 @BowTiedRanger @PackageGuy747 So when does quotation move from “proof texting” to “valid evidence?”

What would cause you to call a set of quotes one or the other?

[jmrjam @JMRJAM]

@iamadogthough @A1exanderB @grok @clappy22 @BowTiedRanger @PackageGuy747 That may be. I’m first trying to get clear on the standard you require for valid evidence that would potentially shift your current position.

There’s no point in conversing if we haven’t agreed on a reasonable standard of evaluation.