Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷

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[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

If you’re referring as to why I brought up Achilles I’m just making an example of the artistic liberties taken in the past.

I’m well aware that Achilles dies sometime after the Iliad and before the odyssey. Off page I might add which always struck me as strange.

And yes he was sent by his mother to live among the daughters of king Lycomedes so he could avoid the prophecy of dying in the Trojan war.

Keep in mind though that this isn’t canon Homer, this once again is work by the Roman Statius around the 1st. Century CE.

Which proves my point again that artistic liberties have traditionally always been taken with Homers work.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@fbmarius @BloodyMary19947 Agreed

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Έλληνες καλούνται όσοι μετέχουν της ελληνικής παιδείας" -Isokratis

Loosely translated it means that anyone that lives by the Greek ideology and upholds Greek values is in fact called a Greek.

So your argument that Ancient Greeks looked beyond biological race has merit.

But as far as Helen is concerned everything points to her being white.

That’s not to say that she can’t be played by a black actress.

I think that if Homer was alive today he would be more shocked that a woman is a thespian than that she’s black lol.

Regardless, any reimagining or retelling of these stories is something all Greeks should be proud of.

I don’t know why some of my compatriots don’t seem to understand that.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Although it’s true that Greeks had plenty of contact with Africa for trade you are either unaware or purposely leaving out a couple of important details.

Number one being that Greece wasn’t one nation like today. It was a bunch of city states connected by language and culture not by government.

This is important because the city states that were heavily involved in trade were Athens and Corinth.

Sparta on the other hand was isolationist and extremely xenophobic. Trade was extremely limited and deliberately discouraged.

Full Spartan citizens were forbidden to be involved in trade or even most manufacturing. Mostly so they could focus on the agoge and ideology of warfare.

Contact with outsiders was not encouraged so as not to risk corrupt ideologies such as luxury or wealth.

Now in Homers poems Helen was a Spartan Queen. So there is absolutely zero chance anyone reciting or hearing the poem pictured Helen as anything other than Spartan Greek.

Don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with how Nolan decided to cast his artistic interpretation of the Odyssey.

It’s an American movie based on Homers poems so having a cast that reflects American demographics is fine.

If it was made in China they probably would have cast a Chinese Helen. And that would also be fine.

But make no mistake, there is no room for interpretation in the fact that in Homers poems Helen was a fair skinned Greek woman.

It has been that way for close to 3000 years and will remain true no matter how much anyone tries to revise history.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@kroketrendang4 @bendreyfuss And that’s the way it should be.
Maybe after seeing the cool Nolan movie your curiosity brings you to read Homer.
After all that’s how his poems have survived thousands of years.
From constant retelling and reimagining.
Enjoy the movie.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Not the swan bull again.

It’s almost like you idiots read from the same script.

I’m tired of having to say this but it’s okay for Nolan to cast whoever fits his vision. I’m sure Homer wouldn’t mind.

It’s NOT okay for brain dead idiots trying to say that Homers version of Helen could be “whatever” because of Zeus taking the form of a swan.

She was a Spartan Queen.
Spartans were notoriously xenophobic.
It would be extremely unrealistic to think anyone repeating or hearing the poem back then would envision her anything but Spartan Greek.
Regardless of whether she was conceived from a swan or a unicorn.

You imbeciles trying to revision Homers works to justify Nolans artistic choices are just giving the voices screaming about subversion of western culture more ammunition.

Homer meant Helen to be Greek.
Nolan is taking artistic liberties.
Both are fine!

“Nolan is erasing Homer”

“But but she was hatched from an egg”

Morons on both sides of this debate 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Why does it matter?

My culture doesn’t get diminished because Nolan has his own artistic style and cast the film accordingly.

As a matter of fact it gives me pride that my ancestors poems are still being used as a reference point for art thousands of years later.

Would I have preferred a more realistic interpretation with cast that looked more like Ancient Greeks? Absolutely!
But that’s just my preference. Nolans vision is different, and that’s okay!

Nevertheless I have to touch on the keyboard intellectuals wanting change Homers vision trying to defend the movie.

1: In Homers poem Helen is a Spartan queen. Spartans were Greek not black.
I don’t care if Zeus turned into a Swan or a donkey. Still Spartan still Greek.

2: Nolans movie doesn’t need defending. Artists take liberties, I’m certain Homer took liberties in his time.

Homers and Nolans takes on the story are different, when you try to embellish Homers poems to justify Nolans casting you’re not only doing both a disservice but you’re giving ammunition to those screaming that the movie is trying to destroy western culture and all sorts of other nonsense!
So just stop!

Can’t wait to see the movie, I hope it is as good as the critics say.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Perfect! The swan wasn’t described but you still assume it’s a swan. Not any other kind of bird, a swan.

Helen was a Spartan queen. So we must assume she looked Spartan.

People have trouble distinguishing between artistic vision which is what Nolan is doing and trying to rewrite what Homers poem was describing wich is what a lot of X posts are doing.

Strangely enough thinking that they are defending Nolas movie.

But they are only giving ammunition to the people screaming that the movie somehow embellishes Homers work.

Homer wrote the Odyssey the way he wrote it, there’s no leeway.

Nolan is giving an artistic interpretation.

And both are fine.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@CloneHat @IamVarunnnn @hrguerra Smh, no. She’s not.
She’s a Spartan Queen.
She’s called Hellen of Troy because the Trojan war started for her.
In Greece she is often called Hellen of Sparta or Helen the Beautiful.
Hope this helps.

[Paul Spacey ⚽️ @PaulSpacey]

https://t.co/x9E06LGrxP

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@Milajoy America was so white in the 80s that Greeks were considered brown.

Now that whiteness is not cool Greeks are considered white.

Can’t win for losing 😂

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@BuschLitePapi44 1.Liverpool
https://t.co/94MLitMEC8
3.Juventos
4.P.S.V.
5.Olympiakos

Enjoy!

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

Hmm, I suppose that’s it’s possible that her description was left to the imagination of the reader or listener as the case may be.

My co-patriots will hang me for this but my major problem isn’t with Helen. I obviously would have preferred a Mediterranean type but artistic liberties are fine.

But I really don’t think I can muster enough suspension of disbelief to see Zendaya as Athena.

She has a look of a permanently annoyed teenager and she’s supposed to be the goddess of wisdom.

But I was wrong about Brad Pitt as Achilles so maybe I’m wrong again.
We’ll wait and see.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

So to clarify,
In your opinion it’s possible that Homer described a black woman as “white armed” solely because she was of noble descent.

That’s what you’re going with?

One of the most important epic poets of all time wouldn’t have seen fit for a more accurate description.
Especially having one of the most descriptive languages of all at his disposal?

No my guy. Those are some top tier mental gymnastics.

His description is “white armed” and even if we go with the nobility thing and say she wasn’t white it would be untanned olive skin. Certainly not black.

Regardless, I’m still proud that once again a great artist like Nolan has decided to honor my ancestors and my culture. Even if I disagree with parts of his vision.

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

@Real_CineSource It just might hit a Billion.
Nolan has that kind of clout.

But I think if it does it will do so despite the casting, not because of it.

So the question is how much would it have made if it was made closer to the original source material?

[Jon Agathos🇺🇸🇬🇷 @jonagathos]

He’s not adding feminism, the hack-job of a translation he’s basing the movie on has feminism baked in.

I’m not going to make any predictions, if anyone can pull this off it’s Nolan.

But personally I’m not happy with the casting or the translation he used as source material.

Regardless I guess we’ll know soon enough.

[Geronimo Morgans @GeronimoMorgans]

Dear Norway fans… you are, without question, the finest supporters this tournament has seen.

From a nation of just over five and a half million people, you travelled across oceans, filled stadiums, painted American streets red and white and turned every single game into a festival of noise, pride and pure joy.

28 years away from the World Cup stage and you returned not with entitlement, but with energy. Not just with noise, but with meaning.

The Viking Row didn’t just inspire your players. It inspired everyone. Opponents. Neutrals. The entire watching world.

The quarter finals. You deserve every single second of it. Keep going. Keep rowing. Norway, the world is behind you. 🇳🇴

[Capauri @capauri]

maybe deleting in the morning but america from an immigrant’s perspective. i came here 2 years ago.

i began actively disliking europeans since coming here. every attitude except the american attitude sucks. i had to stop walking around with noise cancellation turned on in case somebody drive-by complimented me on the street, because it happens so often, and i’d hate to be rude and to not respond. do you even know what kind of stares you get when you speak to a stranger on a european street?

everyone in america wants everyone else to succeed; in europe, everyone wants you to remain comfortably within the crab bucket. in europe i was told everyone on america was just fake nice. that’s giga cope. americans are smarter than you, europoor - americans understand that if you succeed, they succeed by proxy. you get nothing from poor, defeatist neighbors. if everyone’s successful and everyone’s generous, then everyone succeeds. this mindset is the only objectively correct mindset on earth - everyone else is wrong. everyone else thinks success is a finite resource , which is incorrect. if i succeed, then obviously all of my friends succeed, because i love them. i obviously love you, dear reader! you are on this platform like me, you think like me, you want humanity and civilization to persist forever like me, you live near me! i want you to do better than me! you doing better than me benefits me! if i do better than you, it will only benefit you too, because i love you, and want to share with you!

i want everyone to do better than me - it’s not a finite resource, afterall. if you’re better than me now, that’s great, that just means i have more to learn from you while we both shoot for the moon. this is just not the case anywhere else on earth and it’s too easy to take this mindset for granted, and that’s what i found makes America so unique.