PsalteroftheEarth

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[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@ScaryChart @sola_chad Guilty of a crime and charged with the crime are different things.

But even in your analogy he's the author of sin.

Every author who writes a character to murder, is the originating source of that murder.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

The "writer" unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.

But even in this analogy, the murderers in the story are not guilty either. Because its just a story on paper

If this was somehow turned into a real life situation, the writer would be guilty as if he commit the murder..

He would be the author of sin.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

I've been demonstrating it this whole time through your own creed.

In your own analogy, God is just a passive writer. But that's not the calvinist position. It says the opposite with what i've already mentioned and showed before.

"all other sins of angels and men; and that not by a bare permission"

It even goes further

"This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit"

Now, obviously, he's not just the writer in the story. He unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.

The writter made man have a sinful nature.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

The revealed will, was a play on what you were saying

Obviously God is responsible in this view.

Calvinism uses loopholes with the different wills and causes all while also saying

"all other sins of angels and men; and that not by a bare permission"

"This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit"

"unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"

Then tries to blame the creature.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

God ultimately decrees the sin and the allowance is determined.

"all other sins of angels and men; and that not by a bare permission"
- Westminster

So the revealed will is, God is the author of sin.

Even if the creed tries to say otherwise.
it's obviously contradictory, and they try to have it both ways by inventing imaginative loopholes.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

If by God "allows" you're trying to say God did not determine the sinful act then thats no longer calvinist teaching.

"Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it"
- John Calvin

God could have never had the fall, but ordined it would happen and subjected man to sin, cursed him for it and cause him and his descendants to die. Then, plays savior of the affliction he put on him

This is why calvinism is a total heresy.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@MarkJCarney

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

But you said "Outside of God, there would be nothing. So for anything to happen, it must happen by him"

Unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass - (Westminster)

Why did Adam fall ?

God predetermined a fall (for unknown reasons which allowed sin and death)

Tells Adam not to eat of the fruit but

Unchangeably ordains Adam will eat of the fruit

Adam eats and then is cursed by for doing so, but sin is somehow also a rebellion against gods will

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

God upholds the universe in substance. "By the word of his power" - Hebrews 1:3

Like the glue of existence.

He does do things but he does not compel, God works with our free will.

Also, if in calvinism God determines all things, then sin has to be one of those things. If not then they have to admit god can allow things to occur without determining them and then the whole thing falls apart.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

God upholds the universe and has forknowledge of all events that doesn't mean he interferes at all times. He allows whats in our power, and this would again make God the author of evil and wickedness.

Scripture tells a much different story.

Ezekiel 33:11
"I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live"

The fall of Adam makes calvinism even more absurd as he was made sinless. The story could have ended right there. This makes the rest of scripture a farce.

Story of salvation can only stand on free will which is apart of the image were made in.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@ScaryChart @sola_chad God can be all powerful choose not to interfere with will or events, its accordiing to his character not a limit of power.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

Yes but this is an attack on the character and nature of God, not that he had forknowledge of outcomes.

One predetermined that soul specifically for punishment the other allowed the soul free will of rejection.

Ezekiel 18:21-28
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@ScaryChart @sola_chad They can use word play gymnastics to try and get around it, but its what they fundamentally have to believe

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"-Westminster Confession of Faith

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@CatholicQuote12 Looks more like this

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@MarkJCarney Biting the hand that feeds you

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

Polycarp, Disciple of St John.

"But He who raised Him up from the dead will raise up us also, if we do His will, and walk in His commandments, and love what He loved, keeping ourselves from all unrighteousness, covetousness, love of money, evil speaking, false witness; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing, [ 1 Peter 3:9 ] or blow for blow, or cursing for cursing, but being mindful of what the Lord said in His teaching: Judge not, that you be not judged; [ Matthew 7:1 ] forgive, and it shall be forgiven unto you; be merciful, that you may obtain mercy; [ Luke 6:36 ] with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again; [ Matthew 7:2; Luke 6:38 ] and once more, Blessed are the poor, and those that are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of God"

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@Timcast Disgusting and weird. You have to be demented to mock the death of anyone.

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

@WatcherGuru Band for band

[PsalteroftheEarth @Koziyak]

Not RC but

Elders were appointed to the church in many places, this was a bishop, a presbyterous / preist. Acts 14:23 and decons as well, st Stephen is one and called the proto deacon.

Regarding the "wafer" 1 Corinthians 11:27 Paul writes

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

Relics of polycarp were venerated who is a disciple of St John that means not even a generation removed from the apostles, the same people who learned under st John's disciple, venerated relics.

In ortho, we agree on purgatory. What RC believe about purgatory is actually the consuming fire before the throne. Daniel 7:9–10, Psalm 97:1–3, Psalm 50:2–3

And in orthodox we dont pray to her and the saints so much as ask for thier prayers since we believe God is the God of the living and not the dead Luke 20:38 and the saints present the prayers like incense before god Revelation 5:8.