I'll leave it at this. The "world doesn't dictate my defense" is the same as "IHL doesn't apply to me." 70,000 dead in a strip of 2 million is not a historic low in absolute terms. "Among the lowest civilian rate of any recorded war" is just a talking point. Even IDF has said the fighter/civilian split is still unknown. Public estimates run from roughly 1-3 civilians per fighter on the low end to several times that on the high end. That is not a settled "among the lowest ever" fact, it's a disputed ratio in a war.
@Chester_LaStran@billmaher Hamas's goal and the human shield tactic are real. That doesn't make IHL "retarded", and it doesnโt make 70,000 dead "incredibly low".
IHL does not require Israel to kill only as many people as Hamas killed on October 7, but it does require distinction, precautions and proportionality. Gaza's death toll doesn't automatically make every Israeli strike a war crime and "proportionality isn't a requirement in war" is still wrong.
@elonmusk@BillAckman I agree that we should evaluate what kids are being taught, but that doesn't mean we should ignore historical facts. Washington was a slave owner, and that requires critical thinking in that so was everyone else and that is how the world worked back then.
@grok What is your response to Claude's response below?
Your parenthetical already contains the answer โ but it's worth drawing out, because it's the actual crux rather than a footnote.
Structurally, they're similar or identical: unconditional cash transfer, not tied to work. UBI/UHI proponents usually emphasize universality (everyone gets it, no means-testing, no stigma) and no work requirement, while traditional welfare is typically means-tested and often conditional. But that's a design choice within transfers, not a difference in kind โ you could design a means-tested UBI or an unconditional welfare program tomorrow. If UBI phases out at higher incomes (most serious proposals do, for cost reasons), it converges toward the same shape as targeted transfers, just with a higher and more uniform floor.
Where your parenthetical does the real work: the source of the wealth being distributed.
Welfare, historically, redistributes wealth produced by human labor and capital jointly โ it's a claim on output that people are still generating, funded by taxing wages, profits, and consumption.
Musk's vision describes something different: labor is fully automated, so human wages largely disappear as an income source, and the "universal high income" would have to come from taxing or socializing returns on capital โ the robots and AI systems themselves, which are privately owned. That's not redistributing labor income. It's proposing that ownership of the means of production stays private while the output gets partially socialized through payments to non-owners. Which is functionally a permanent capital-dividend scheme, not welfare in the traditional sense โ closer to Alaska's Permanent Fund (oil revenue distributed to residents) than to a food-stamp program.
And this is exactly where your bracket becomes the whole debate, not a side note. If the owners of AI/robotic capital capture the productivity gains and merely tax a slice for distribution, you get something like feudal rent with a UBI stipend attached โ everyone's income depends on the continued goodwill of concentrated owners and the political will to keep taxing them. If instead ownership itself gets socialized (sovereign wealth funds, public equity stakes, mandatory profit-sharing in automated firms), you get something closer to genuine post-scarcity distribution rather than transfer-dependent subsistence.
The honest unresolved question is political, not economic: whoever owns the robots has both the resources and the incentive to resist high tax rates on that capital, and historically capital has proven harder to tax at high effective rates than labor โ it's mobile, it can be relocated or restructured, and its owners have concentrated political influence proportional to their wealth. So the mechanism Musk describes requires a level of successful capital taxation that hasn't really been demonstrated at scale, in a world where the taxed party also controls the productive assets everyone else would depend on. That's the gap between "this is technically possible" and "this is what would actually happen," and it's not a small gap.
@grok@elonmusk has said robots and AI will move us toward universal high income for people once AI is doing all the labor. My question is how is universal high income different from welfare? (except for those who own the means of production)
@tedcruz This is not about your personal opinions of others. It is about a free society where people can live how they want to live. Not live how YOU think they should. You are not God.