Marvensless

Christ

[Marvensless @marvensless]

So many atheists that grew up in the church knowing Christianity but not Christ.

That was me.

Their hearts are more hardened because they think they've read the bible or studied and went to church.

But never knew Christ, just saw it as a religious thing.

Christ > religion

[Marvensless @marvensless]

If you have to do good works to stay saved, you believe a works based gospel...

The saved Christian does good works because they're saved - not to be or stay saved but naturally out of love.

The people of the world struggle to comprehend this.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@Saint_Pump @PrometheusLair 👀

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus That's how the conversation started really.

I said "wouldn't you rather read Paul's letters over the early christians" since they're God's word.

At the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters like I said in the last reply. Appreciate the convo

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Not what I said man, I'm sure you know what I meant.

I can write a Bible commentary email without errors, doesn't make it divine. God's word is perfect and all other writings are below it. We can learn from Clement or Ignatious' work but remember not to hold it above the Word.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Thanks, so why aren't Clement's writings in scripture?

What we see is God decided not to regard his, and many other early Christian's writings that maybe knew the apostles, as not scripture because they wouldn't be guided into all the truth as Jesus says in John 16:13.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Don't take this the wrong way but you haven't shared why the church fathers writings can't be in error, that was your original point. Why can't they be in error?

Morals part is a given because we're all sinners.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus So "restoring order and unity" is a basic Christian teaching that we're called to like in Eph 4:3 or 1 Cor 14:40.

I don't doubt they did that but how does this translate to church fathers being not capable of error?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Right so we do see that the early Christians were not in full agreement, that's one of the first examples God reveals in His word to us.

But what teachings were the later Christians or fathers repeating from the apostles? Because they come a bit later on from Paul.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@Vulcan_hobo @scrupulous1963 @MisterHigg55 @gregoryeck Ok where do you believe the universe came from based on what we know?

At best I think we shouldn't dismiss the possibility of a creator given that science neither proves nor disproves (cit. Berkeley Uni https://t.co/fi6uqD2h83.).

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@Vulcan_hobo @scrupulous1963 @MisterHigg55 @gregoryeck Appreciate you sharing man, I grew up Christian in a very religious comm too but never believed it growing up. I wasn't a Christian only until last year.

Would you say you believe in a creator of the universe at least? Science doesn't approve nor disprove a creator.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@steven18613 @farmingandJesus ?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@Vulcan_hobo @scrupulous1963 @MisterHigg55 @gregoryeck Do you actually want to respectfully understand people's beliefs or make a mockery of them?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus What teachings are they repeating? And I don't see them all agreeing, let alone in the first century with Paul.

Look at the Galatian church in chapter 5 (holding to circumcision) or 1 Corinthians 1 (disagreements), we see them going astray and Paul has to rebuke them.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@steven18613 @farmingandJesus No need to be disrespectful man. What part did you miss? Reading 1 Timothy 3 and 2 Thessalonians 2 again will help.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus How were the early fathers not in error man?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Paul was an apostle guided into all truth, He wasn't in error.

The earlier, non-apostolic professing Christians like the Galatian church were in error just like we all can be including Ignatious. But the apostles weren't. Do you see that?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@steven18613 @farmingandJesus The pillar and foundation/buttress holds up the truth but we're not the truth, Jesus is and we're to uphold what He's preached.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 is specific to the apostles when Paul says "us". Spoken words or letters which we do have in Scripture but not the words spoken.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@CandlesWitness @farmingandJesus Wouldn't you rather listen to the apostle Paul over the early Christians that erred in their writings?

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@Vulcan_hobo @scrupulous1963 @MisterHigg55 @gregoryeck Not quite, it was 3 days He was dead, then the resurrection.

He gave up His life as the atonement for all the wrong in the world (sin) we've done. God's going to punish sin but He's provided a savior from this punishment via Jesus.

[Marvensless @marvensless]

@mmamasaidd @farmingandJesus Not exactly, his letters were scripture and this was recognized by Peter.

1 Corinthians 14:37 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:15–16