Michæl

**NOTHING ""NOTHING"" ((everything)) SAID HERE IS LEGITIMATELY {not} SAID IN A BREAD FASHION. ""NONE"' (all) OF IT.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@2terrific4you @UPoisonFruit Well, the idea of малороссийство as inseparable from the all-Russian nation is essentially gone, or at the very least, one-sided. Given Ukrainization and modern social consciousness, those that may have once identified with the term now view it as disparagement.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you I don’t think it was really seen as a humiliation of any kind. Remember, any animosity was not directed at Ruthenians, but at the Poles and Lithuanians who had directly challenged the legacy of Russia as the sole heir of Rus’ for centuries.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you To be fair, the ‘triune Russian’ nation was not a Russian project alone, and it received wide support across many facets of Ukrainian society at that time. But this is semantics, and it does not really apply to a modern discussion.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you Ignore my other comment as you’ve answered here but I agree. It is the same with «малороссы», where, of course, it is a chauvinistic term now, but it’s origin does not immediately translate to inferiority, as it is a convention seen across multiple Slavic languages (like Polish)

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you Where do you suppose it was derived prior to Khmelnytsky and the Zaporozhian Host?

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you (Латинское margo (граница) по-польски kraj, отсюда Украина — как бы область, расположенная у края польского королевства). It should be noted again that this only refers to a few voivodeships of the Dnieper region, and most likely unofficial or colloquial at that time.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you It was the ‘frontier’ of the state, irregardless of the identity of its inhabitants, as it bordered the Wild Fields and Crimean Khanate, and its history and association with cossacks. That being said, I understand that the ethnic term would only arise under the Russian empire

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you As the term only referred to the middle Dnieper region. That being said, it did originate from the Polish-Lithuanian state, but it was only that much later it would evolve into a proper political and ethnographical term.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you But Ukraine does not refer to the borderland of Russia, but of the Polish state. It was there that a national identity developed to distinguish themselves from the Catholics.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you I’m not debating ethnonyms. I just thought you were making the point that Russia stole its name as is a common talking point. The common identifier that developed under Polish-Lithuanian rule is none of my business but theirs.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@UPoisonFruit @2terrific4you I don’t understand this argument. Why does it matter what Italian and German cartographers labeled these regions? Doesn’t it matter more how the actual people living in these lands referred to themselves and their states?

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

I want my wife to be shrewd

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@iwasjeremy Bear does acknowledge that. He even jokes with Nikki that she was coming on too strong at the trivia night

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@zerguskotus @ChelseaR19580 @VileChud That’s not unique to the lands of Rus. It’s a simple matter that the Rurikovichi branches in modern Ukraine/Belarus died out or lost influence to the Polish and Lithuanian dynasties. There is no competition unless you consider the Gediminids equal successors

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@zerguskotus @ChelseaR19580 @VileChud I would never argue they are the sole claimants, as it is more than just political, but it is ridiculous to argue that their claim to the legacy is “stolen”.

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@zerguskotus @ChelseaR19580 @VileChud They don’t, but they did maintain their “relative” independence and overthrew the Tatar Yoke. One of the absolute goals of the Russian state was the reclamation of the lands of Rus («объединение Руси»).

[Michæl @michaelofhitch]

@zerguskotus @ChelseaR19580 @VileChud How? Why would the Vladimir branch of the Rurikovichi have any less claim to Rus/Russia than those subjugated under Poland and Lithuania?