Myst_

They call me "The Department of War" | Pro Gamer | Local Brewer | Public Speaker | Influencer | Rocket Scientist | Published Author | 86 IQ

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@MordenReiter Hold on. I might be stupid and over-complicating this entire discussion. Aye Mak Sicur literally calls them "the yrro" lmfao

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@MordenReiter I did have the thought part way through this discussion that it might be the idea split with the creation of Double Aught, where Bungie kept an interpretation of individuals and Double Aught took it as phonetic, but I'm just speculating with that one.

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@MordenReiter This is why I mentioned the connection to the KYT term. They become vulgar without, but that's a connection and not explanation. Their battles being the waves which caused creation means this is the hard stopping point for the Jjaro creating new sentience.

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@MordenReiter Then you can easily say that Jjaro maps to both Forerunner and Didact, while something not Jjaro can still fill the role as a Forerunner. Working backwards here doesn't work when the purposes are consistent but player's aren't.

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@MordenReiter The whole child kidnapping thing being justified by them saving humanity

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@MordenReiter The only difference is the scale. Your interpretation of them as the same is no different, but holds less water UNLESS you work backwards from a story you already said does not map directly

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@MordenReiter Yet, Marathon 2 makes it a point to justify. The conflict is the justification for the actions. A lack of justification later becoming the Hanger 96 terminals, with a justified wrongdoing becoming the Spartans in Halo

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@MordenReiter And a lot of this is both for fun of discussion and because we know next to nothing about Pthia other than "they had a connection to Jjaro and then died", to have misinfo when there's already so little irks me

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@MordenReiter It would simply change scale, replace 1 death via W'rk to a species. The point I'm making is that it's inaccurate to make the statement that they are Jjaro when they are said to be not by someone who worked on the series, not that it changes any points you've made about them

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@MordenReiter What about life/order/light is vulgar without it's warring companion? The heroes mentioned in KYT are only heroes due to their actions in conflict, uplifting it from vulgar bloodshed to something worth glorifying.

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@MordenReiter The logic still follows that Pthia are a different species based on them being differentiated from Jjaro/Yrro

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@MordenReiter Yes but the purpose of that statement is to not be confused by different spellings (funny given the conversation). He is saying that S'boath and S'bhuth are not different by saying "it's like how Jjaro and Yrro are not different".

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@MordenReiter The point of me bringing up authorship is that, while one element of the story exists in Halo, it doesn't mean it was present in Marathon. Working backwards here doesn't work.

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@MordenReiter

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@MordenReiter No, it does. Jjaro and Pthia fall into the same roles as the KYT Terminal (later the Gardener and Winnower, if we're talking about Bungie through-lines). Two companions of conflict. Ask yourself this: what battles were the Jjaro fighting if they were fleeing the W'rkncacnter?

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@MordenReiter also I think the quote that has "yrro" and "jarro" in it might be about the Jjaro too

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@MordenReiter The level that terminal in 2 is from is a Kirkpatrick level (who also wrote the lore, and this is certainly "lore"). I'm not saying the connection to The Didact and Librarian doesn't still work, but that it isn't a literal "these are 2 Jjaro individuals doing similar things"

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@MordenReiter I'm not saying the Jjaro didn't create the S'pht through their cybernetics, I'm saying their representation of the Jjaro as an individual is mythological (just as their representation of the battles as waves)

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@MordenReiter This is, again, working backwards from the assumption (against what the co-founder of Double Aught says) that Pthia is an individual who is Jjaro, which is not stated anywhere in the games

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@MordenReiter Have you never read any other story where a group is personified as an individual? This is in a terminal which begins with flowery language.