No

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Indeed.

My argument would be why not both?(easier said than done, but that's the bigs)

[No @Pyrellael]

@theBeerkid69 Part of the problem is that we basically just don't have a AAA team.

the PCL is not a small issue for these teams. I'm not actually sure why this isn't a more discussed issue. Teams with PCL affiliates should seriously consider alternatives if they exist

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Love that you brought up zone shrink. Pinpoint zone has absolutely contributed to the shift away from bavg.

To beat a batter in the zone, stuff needs to bite.
To beat a pitcher with 98 & 22" ivb, you need competitive bat speed.
In the zone, more opportunity for loud contact.

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Thats reasonable. Theres something to be said about player incentives and 2nd-order effects from emphasizing bat speed. Jed Lowrie talks about this on Rates & Barrels.

2nd order effects are harder to quantify, but lots of evidence points to it being appropriately valued

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Teams want to create & prevent runs. Where those runs created come from is secondary.

When ppl talk about bat speed, it's not about hitting home runs--its about overall production. Bat speed isnt about choosing A or B, its about making whatever approach you take even better.

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Cant agree with 1st point. Modern game values overall value more than it has at any point in history.

The average SP is nastier than the majority of closers were 20 years ago. They also have advanced intel on batter weaks/strengths. Then layer on improved OF def+pos

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Shift ban prob favors this archetype, but OF def and shading really hurts. Ex: Arraez 2025. More incentive for harder contact.

Game is getting younger and younger players on-line quicker

Def 1st players still exist. We're better at giving them tools to be passable at the plate

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tiltbase @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball @Tstokey Carew and Gwynn definitely followed a different school of thought.

Unfortunately, that school has fallen by the wayside(probably due to improved defense and positioning). It was exploiting an inefficiency, but the inefficiency has tightened up significantly

Req amazing hit tool

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @tiltbase @uTeeBaseball If we want to maximize runs created, the ideal swing is not always the realistic swing.

Some of my best feels off the barrel came off swings that felt effortless, and I know I'm not the only one.

We train in many ways--all of these things(including bat speed) are critical.

[No @Pyrellael]

@tiltbase @GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @uTeeBaseball I tend to think that much of the disconnect just comes from a lack of listening resulting from ego

I try my best to listen and absorb. People clearly care a LOT about it-why? Everyone just wants the game to be better.

Measured plate approach is critical.
So is training the body

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @tiltbase @uTeeBaseball I understand--not aggressing. I agree that training and approach are different topics. A just helps you accomplish B better.

It's also important that these aren't categorical choices where you can only do A or B.

Hitting the barrel is critical. So is swinging hard. We need both

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @tiltbase @uTeeBaseball Player A and B both swing exclusively at 80%
Player A has a max bat speed of 85
Player B has a max bat speed of 65

85*80% > 65*80%

Bat speed training isn't just about taking G-hacks-- it's about increasing the quality of your contact through training.

(3/3)

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @tiltbase @uTeeBaseball Much of the gap in these discussions is just talking past

It is an indisputable fact that if you hold all other things constant, a faster swing will result in a harder hit ball. The goal of *training* bat speed is to increase the speed of all swings, incl your 80% swing.
(2/x)

[No @Pyrellael]

@GoGoGolson @tangotiger @TheWARmonger_ @JMikeMLB @DrivelineBB @tiltbase @uTeeBaseball Thanks for finding this classic Kendrick home run. Great moment.

The point you're making is clearly about cues/feel. Its important to stay loose and avoid a "tight" feeling swing(my mind goes to Eugenio Suarez as loose)

Bat speed isnt talking about that. It's missing the point.

[No @Pyrellael]

@DSzymborski This.

Its the job of many staff members to
1) get data
2) analyze
3) visualize
4) diagnose
5) create a plan
6) get buy-in
7) enact the plan
Repeat

If your captain doesnt buy into these ideas, it's because one of those steps has failed

[No @Pyrellael]

@JMikeMLB No ill will towards you. I'm open to hearing what I'm missing. Humility is one of the first things you learn pursuing both mathematics and baseball.

The best teachers are the ones who never stop being students.

You have valuable input. Cues are useful, but they're not physics.

[No @Pyrellael]

@tiltbase @JMikeMLB 🎯

[No @Pyrellael]

@JMikeMLB The best students are the ones who engage honestly with an open mind.

⚾️

[No @Pyrellael]

@MooneyOwnsYou @ThBoneOfMySword I agree with the core of what you're all saying.

In the past id disagree with that take on Manny, but it hasnt looked great recently. Probably downstream from his politics tbh