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@ricardusfirst
โHe rode the entire length of the Saracen line and none dared to accept his challenge.โ Richard I of England, our lord and savior ๐ โจ
Joined July 2020
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๐ ๐ ๐ฎ๐ข๐๐ ๐ญ๐จ ๐ซ๐๐๐๐ข๐ง๐ ๐๐๐จ๐ฎ๐ญ ๐๐ข๐๐ก๐๐ซ๐ ๐ ๐จ๐ ๐๐ง๐ ๐ฅ๐๐ง๐
(but itโs more comprehensive than my usual book reviews):
All books about Richard will be based on the primary sources, that means the contemporary chroniclers.
And thatโs where the first issue starts.
The contemporary chroniclers can be classified in pro Richard and anti Richard (pro Philippe, them haters), there are also the neutrals but being neutral was really not that easy. Roger of Howden used to be more neutral but he had a falling out with Richard and ever since became more hostile in his writing. So it was very easy to swing ways depending on politics, personal relationships or just where you stood.
So like today, you have different agendas.
When we say โprimary sourcesโ people imagine something objective, but what you actually have is a group of very real people, writing in real time, with loyalties, frustrations and opinions.
Going directly to a primary source may be a bit of a difficult task to start learning about Richard.
Good news is that most of their work has been preserved nicely, which is honestly incredible. But it is not easy to interpret the chroniclers due to these different agendas, the medieval languages, and the fact that they assume you already understand the political situation theyโre talking about.
Sometimes they donโt even explain things and they just move on, because to them it was obvious.
The primary sources division is like this (very simplified):
Pro Richard:
Itinerarium Regis Ricardi, Gesta Regis Ricardi and Ambroise
Neutral / more mixed:
Howden, William of Newburgh, Ralph of Diceto, Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad and Ibn al-Athir
Anti:
Rigord (pro Philippe)
At the time there was a lot of political propaganda and itโs plain hard to follow them, so to decide who was telling the truth you need a filter, thatโs where modern historians come in handy.
Step 1: choose your filter
But now we are relying on non contemporary people to interpret the primary sources, and that brings in the issue of presentism and anachronism. Every historian reads the past through their own time.
When I say modern historians I mean anything since the Victorian era. But the presentism in the Victorian era was extreme and they decided that since Richard hadnโt spent enough time in England he was BAD, and books started reading more anti.
And that interpretation stuck for a long time, which is why Richardโs reputation can feel all over the place depending on what you read.
Option 1: the academic approach
Itโs really difficult to interpret the primary sources and decide who was telling the truth and thatโs exactly what John Gillingham did and did an amazing job. Heโs the academic authority on Richard.
What he does well is not picking a side blindly, he actually works through the contradictions.
Having read other modern historians I can still say Gillingham is the best option.
William Ian Miller is too simple, Bartlett is more pessimistic and can lean heavily critical.
Jean Flori is the other great option. The problem with Flori is that he tries very hard to not be seen as pro Richard and in doing so falls sometimes into the same mistakes historians in the early 1900s did. However this is still a great book that weights Richardโs image of chivalry against the expectations at the time.
Option 2: the novelistic approach
Sharon Kay Penman has been regarded as a historian writing history as a novel. You will be reading Richardโs true history as a narrative that feels alive, with little to no invention compared to most fiction.
She gives you something the academic books donโt always give: the emotional and human side.
Still, this needs to be complemented with an academic book.
Now you have a strong base to understand Richard. Not just what happened, but how itโs being told.
Also!! This post was supposed to praise fate!! Well at least fsf and this scene ๐ญ๐ญ I saw it again yesterday and i thought โhow the fuck did a work from japan manage to get him when works from England miss him entirely?!โ But I wonโt give up in demanding that misinformation about historical figures that are already widely misjudge, isnโt propagated further by fate or anything else
From my perspective as a historical Richard fan, Fate messed up a lot of things and Iโll gladly point them out.
That said, Iโve watched most films and TV portrayals of Richard, and NONE and I mean NONE have managed to capture the essence of Richard. Iโve never actually seen Richard I in any of these productions that have attempted to use him for their narrative, not for one second.
Ironically, this fictional anime character inspired by him does manage to do that in just 20 seconds with this scene. Itโs just this scene but for a few seconds, Fate conveys something many supposedly historical productions never do. Richardโs voice, his depth and complexity. Thatโs huge to me.
Ric is a historical figure not a mythological figure, you have to respect him and his history (and this doesnโt only apply fate, heโs usually terribly treated) I said it above but how is changing Germany for Rome a creative decision? How did it serve the story? All it did was create misinformation.
Yes!! But I think it goes a bit further than that for this scene. When you are so balls deep into a historical figure as I am with Ric,
I think you become very familiar with their voice and essence, at least the one youโve been able to recreate from being so close to primary sources and information. I honestly feel that these few lines were able to capture that โsoulโ and I think thatโs very very hard to do for any form of media using a figure. Usually I can only find Richard in books because Itโs something sometimes only historical experts in the subject can do. And Iโve read books about Richard that miss it entirely.
@Jet_Piranha Yes!! Itโs not good at all. Itโs very very bad and I will continue to ignore its existence as long as I live cause this was an example of messing up and messing up horribly.
@Blagorgor Nope. If they were gonna borrow his name for their story, they had to at least get basic facts right. The moment you stop excusing poor writing on โitโs just fate, King Arthur isnโt a woman eitherโ, you are gonna elevate this franchise.
I shall dedicate this balloon day to Richard I of England just like any other day tbh ๐โโ๏ธ
Listen Iโll never forgive Narita for mixing up Germany with Rome. Thatโs a huge mistake to make and honestly a terrible one. Itโs taking a chunk of the real Richardโs history and throw it in the trash, specially one that matters so much.
But itโs also HARD loving a historical figure and that the few productions with him are pure trash and just not being able to see him in my screen. So these 20 seconds mean a lot to me because for a moment i can see him. This moment too is another example:
@ChrisManzano15 Gotcha! Itโs just something I enjoy thinking about whether he was afraid of dying or if he even wanted to die young and fighting
I donโt think he wanted to die, nor do I think he chased after death. But I also donโt believe he ever expected to grow old.
He simply refused to live any other way than the one he thought was worthy of him. He wanted glory, yes, but unlike so many others, he understood that glory was never freely given. It had to be earned. It demanded sacrifice, effort, and the willingness to place oneself in danger. It meant leading from the front and accepting that every battle could be your last.
One of the reasons I admire him so much is precisely that devotion. The absolute commitment he had to his dreams, his willingness to pursue them despite the risks and despite knowing that death was always a possibility.
There is a kind of bravery that comes from surviving, and another that comes from deciding that fear will not dictate the shape of your life. Richard embodied the latter.
Maybe that is why history remembers him as Lionheart. Heโs the greatest embodiment of that name.
@ricardusfirst Richard to me strikes me as the type who would want to live life to the fullest, to rather die in the heat of glorious combat than as an old, likely enfeebled, old man
Richard was a complicated man. He was tall, good looking and had bright red hair, all of which he inherited from his formidable mother, together with her undoubted courage, her charm, and her love of music.
Given his privileged background and upbringing, he was somewhat self-willed and had a very violent temper - an inheritance from his father - which could be triggered by seemingly trivial events. His energy and speed of travel were such that he was reputed to be able to lly and, as these pages will show, he was a man whose personal courage and leadership in hand-to-hand fighting were beyond dispute.
Indeed, he threw himself with great enthusiasm into any fight or skirmish, and the greater the odds against him, the more he seemed to enjoy it. On a few occasions, one or other of his own men advised him to observe greater caution, but this usually earned them a cutting rebuke, and having delivered it, the king went ahead anyway.
Even Saladin, the great Saracen leader, and Richard's most redoubtable foe, remarked in a discussion with the Bishop of Salisbury after the Third Crusade was over, that Richard was foolishly imprudent 'in thrusting himself so frequently into great danger'.
Yesterday I had one of those crisis in which I couldnโt deal with anything remotely negative about Ric so how can I even read a book when I know thereโs gonna be something remotely controversial (and Iโve been getting difficult comments that overwhelm me). Today Iโm in a โI cannot contain my love for dead man I need to read all the things about him. Tomorrow weโll see.
@MaximalScum Yeah he loved history and mythology. Iโve read about im quoting Norse mythology which is insane.
Wait why are you guys not as amazed as I am over this fun fact????
I just read (Miller) something I didnโt know before: that Richard did have an idol and he carried books about him around ๐ค๐ผ๐ค๐ผ๐ค๐ผ
Vegetius and he carried โDe re militariโ with him. Which makes a lot of fucking sense. In this essay we are gonna talk about why Richard the Lionheart is one of the best military commanders of all time.
@ChrisManzano15 Thatโs like comparing two extreme sides of the spectrum ๐ญ๐ญ๐ญ๐ญ
I love (most) modern historians interpreting Richard. This is why we need modern historians to translate the primary source but itโs hard to find good translators who arenโt trampled by their ideology and biases.
Now Miller specializes in military warfare. To have a Richard book focusing on his military self by an expert who seems not interested in those biases and doesnโt get pulled in by anachronistic propaganda is a gift
Thats my king my liege my love
@ChrisManzano15 Apologies โby beingโ typo
@ChrisManzano15 Most historians have done too much harm to Richard for being extremely liberal. So I donโt agree. I rather read Ambroise knowing he was a Richard fangirl and Baha al din knowing he was a Saladin fangirl and judge from there
He was a Roman military geek who would literally reference literature and try to apply it in his campaigns Iโm
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