Seth Carr

sup

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@TrnsTraditional @BridePilled Yes it is. What do you call treating the vegetative power as non-normative?

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@BridePilled Individual man has one nature/essence of the soul, which is rational. I believe where you are in error is to confuse the nature of the soul of man and the powers of that individual soul.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Popesplainer09 @poperespecter1 “you should know that on those feasts on which, as we have shown, one should cease from all worldly labor, we think that one should abstain all the more from secular offices and especially from killing. For although both can perhaps be exercised without fault” - Pope Nicholas I

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@TD_B89 You say a lot without settling the issue. It’s pure sophistry. Papal welcome is not a moral judgment. The only questions that need to be asked:

Are homosexual acts sinful?

Does knowingly entering a homosexual union constitute a near occasion of sin?

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 We agree.

My argument was ultimately about the death penalty as such and its licit nature. Not whether or not the ruler ought to do it for any specific crime. We may disagree on circumstance for its use but that’s not the original point.

If I didn’t make that clear I’m sorry.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Do you believe the death penalty as such to be sinful in all cases?

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 By “freeze” I mean lock it in. Your view, as I read it, is that Scripture permits the sword but does not fix death as the penalty the church must keep. A later age may lay it down, on the slavery pattern.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 If I could steel man your argument it would be this:

“Scripture permits the sword. It does not freeze death as the Christian penalty, and a later age may lay it down for the same kind of reason it laid slavery down.”

Is this correct?

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Gen 9:6 has no “if” is my point. Abolishing a permission is not the same act as repealing a command give by God, especially for us as Christians, when it’s confirmed in Romans 13:4.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 I didn’t ask if they are commands. I asked if they are the same kind of commands.

Romans 13:4 isn’t a stretch. φορεῖν μάχαιραν is the power of life and death. ἔκδικος εἰς ὀργήν is an avenger for wrath. Same μάχαιρα kills James in Acts 12:2. It’s not a presupposition.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Do you think Exodus 21, Leviticus 25, and 1 Peter 2 are the same kind of command as Gen 9:6 and Romans 13:4? No. One institutes the penalty. The other regulates a practice already there. If you buy a slave is not shed blood, yours is shed.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Slavery doesn’t carry the analogy. God never commands it. He tolerates and regulates it. The death penalty is commanded. Gen 9:6, Num 35:31. Also, The jobs stay split. Repentance is preached to the man. Vengeance is given to the ruler, ἔκδικος εἰς ὀργήν.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 I agree with you that death isn’t necessary. I’m saying that Paul told us death is permissible of the rulers power for the sake of vengeance.

Also, to correct myself, Paul doesn’t pick the penalty either. That was an overstatement on my part.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 A concept of justice doesn’t pick the penalty. Paul did. ἔκδικος εἰς ὀργήν, and the instrument is the μάχαιρα. You keep granting avenger, then subtracting death. The sword is the part that names it. The point of an avenger is to avenge, not to restore or transform.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Romans 13 doesn’t say justice. The word is ἔκδικος εἰς ὀργήν, an avenger for wrath. I.e. retribution.

Slavery isn’t the same move. Paul regulates a household arrangement and tells slaves to take freedom if they can 1 Cor 7:21.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Retributive justice is exactly what Paul is talking about when he calls the ruler ἔκδικος. He’s telling us in Romans 12 to not seek vengeance but ourselves because he places that power in the hands of the state and gives them permission to do so.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 My brother in Christ, saying “it symbolizes they have that power” gives the whole point up. Does the ruler have to execute the death penalty? No. But if he does, he does not bear the sword in vain.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 Doesn’t matter because ἔκδικος is still “exacting penalty from; an avenger.” Also, I’m not inserting anything. φορεῖν μάχαιραν is the power of life and death. Same word kills James in Acts 12:2.

[Seth Carr @SethCarr5]

@Anglican_Man @JSmith95974 The Abbott-Smith legal representation note is about papyri. ἔκδικος is still “exacting penalty from; an avenger.” Also, Wisdom 12:12 doesn’t do anything. It’s a question about who will come as an ἔκδικος against God for destroying the nations, which is no one.