Why Jews and Christians often talk past each other on "Is Jesus God?" — It's not stubbornness; it's different foundations. Here's Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith (core Jewish beliefs) side-by-side with mainstream Christian views. See the contrasts!
Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith (12th century, foundational in Orthodox Judaism) vs. mainstream Trinitarian Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, most Protestant/evangelical). These show why the starting points are so different.
1. Existence of God
Jewish: God exists as the perfect Creator.
Christian: Agrees.
→ Shared ground.
2. Absolute Unity/Oneness of God
Jewish: God is absolutely one — simple, indivisible, no parts/persons (Shema: "The Lord is ONE").
Christian: God is one in essence but three persons (Trinity).
→ Biggest divide: Jews see Trinity as multiplicity in God's essence.
3. God has no physical body / incorporeality
Jewish: God is completely non-corporeal, no form/image/attributes that imply body.
Christian: God the Son became incarnate in Jesus (fully God + fully human).
→ Direct clash — Incarnation impossible in Judaism.
4. God is eternal
Jewish: Timeless, unchanging.
Christian: Agrees.
→ Shared.
5. Worship God alone
Jewish: Exclusive worship; no one/thing else.
Christian: Worship directed to Triune God; prayer through Jesus central.
→ Jews see this as dividing worship.
6. God communicates via prophecy
Shared, but details differ on continuation.
7. Moses is the greatest prophet
Jewish: Unsurpassed.
Christian: Jesus surpasses Moses.
→ Elevation of Jesus above Moses.
8–9. The Torah is from God & immutable
Jewish: Written + Oral Torah divine & eternal; no changes allowed.
Christian: Old Testament inspired but fulfilled/superseded by New Covenant (e.g., ceremonial laws no longer binding).
→ Core issue: Jews reject any "new" revelation altering Torah.
10. God knows all deeds (omniscience)
Shared.
11. Reward & punishment
Jewish: Through repentance/deeds/mercy.
Christian: Salvation through faith in Christ's atonement.
→ No vicarious divine sacrifice in Judaism.
12. The Messiah will come
Jewish: Future human king from David; brings peace, Temple, Torah observance — not divine, not dying for sins.
Christian: Jesus is Messiah (first coming as servant, second as king).
→ Jews say prophecies unfulfilled.
13. Resurrection of the dead
Shared (timing differs).
Summary of clashes:
- God's nature: Absolute simple oneness + no body vs. Trinity + Incarnation.
- Torah: Eternal/unchangeable vs. fulfilled/superseded.
- Messiah: Human restorer vs. divine Savior.
These aren't minor — they're different definitions of what God can be and what revelation means.
— Footnote: Why Jews say God won't (and can't) become a man, even though "He can do anything"
Jews don't limit God's power — they limit nonsense. Omnipotence means God can do anything logically possible. Becoming human creates contradictions:
- God is eternal/unchanging/infinite → human is born, changes, dies.
- God is incorporeal/simple (no body/parts) → human has body, limits, suffers.
Asking "Can God become finite while remaining infinite?" is like "Can God make a square circle?" — it's not a lack of power; it's meaningless. (Maimonides: God is absolute unity without composition/change; incarnation introduces both.) God doesn't need to become human to forgive/save — He's infinite & can act directly. That's why Jews see it as incompatible with Torah's description of God.
This isn't to "win" — just to explain why the question "How could He not be God?" feels like different languages. Thoughts welcome, respectfully!
According to the Christian Bible, Jesus had to come from the Jewish line of King David to be the Messiah. That means you must believe God chose the Jewish people up until Jesus was born, or your own religion falls apart.
If you lived 2,000 years ago, would you be standing there yelling at Jesus and the Apostles, telling them: 'Us goyem don't like you Jews saying you are chosen'?! Because that is exactly who you are arguing against. Jesus himself worshipped as a Jew and explicitly said 'salvation is from the Jews.'
How does it make sense to say it was perfectly fine for Jews to be 'chosen' to give you your religion, but it’s suddenly a sin for them to hold onto that exact same covenant today? You can't celebrate Jewish lineage when it benefits your faith, and then attack them for it. The logic completely fails.
Paul believed most of Israel had rejected his rebbe (whom he saw as Moshiach) and were no longer truly following Hashem. In Torah thought, the covenant with Knesset Yisrael is eternal and unbreakable. But there is always a sifting: which communities and individuals remain part of the faithful Knesset Yisrael, who joins it, and who drifts away when full redemption comes.
Paul argued that his group was the faithful remnant and that Jews rejecting his message were making a fatal mistake. His teachings attracted Gentiles in large numbers, eventually detaching from Torah and becoming a separate religion.
Here is the deeper irony and lesson of history: Paul’s emphasis on selection and faithfulness actually points against his own conclusions. Gentiles do not need Paul’s ideology to be included in the fold of redemption. God already gave the nations a clear, perfect path — the Seven Noahide Laws. Most ethical Gentiles already live by these basics (no idolatry, no murder, no theft, no sexual immorality, no blasphemy, no eating live animals, and establishing justice). Pure, sincere belief in the One God — with no other — is the truest foundation.
In the time of final geulah, the prophets show the nations being included and elevated: many will stream to Jerusalem, learn God’s ways from Israel, recognize the God of Israel, and serve alongside the Jewish people — each in their proper role (see Isaiah 2, Micah 4, Zechariah 8). Righteous Gentiles have a full share in the World to Come and in the redeemed world without needing to become Jewish or follow Paul’s offshoot path.
Those who stayed loyal to Torah remain the chosen core of Knesset Yisrael. Deviations fight it, try to change or replace it, and get winnowed over time. The covenant stands firm. Fidelity to the path God actually gave each group determines who is truly selected and included when the final redemption arrives. The world is increasingly returning to these root truths.
Let’s be completely honest with ourselves and question the historical narrative:
For centuries, the nations of the world rejected the God of Israel because His Torah demanded total obedience, strict discipline, and a distinct holy lifestyle. Yet, the moment a narrative emerged claiming that a single individual "fulfilled" those laws so the nations were exempt from physically keeping them, millions suddenly signed up.
We need to ask ourselves a dark but necessary question: Did the world actually fall in love with the God of the Tanakh? Or did the world just fall in love with a theology that gave them an escape hatch from His commandments? If your definition of "fulfilled" means Jews no longer have to physically obey the eternal laws of Sinai, you aren't preaching fulfillment—you are just chanting replacement.
Imagine a world without religious, Torah-observant Orthodox Jews. Christians claim they are waiting for the third Temple to be built. Do you realize how many hyper-specific, physical laws must be followed in that Temple? Those details don't exist in the written text alone; they are only preserved through the precise Oral Torah transmission that Jews study thoroughly every single day in preparation—spanning entire tractates like Chullin, Menachot, Arachin, Temurah, Tamid, and Middot.
Your argument of "fulfillment" completely wipes out all of that preparation. It gets rid of the Jewish home, which has practical, physical rules almost as abundant as the Temple itself—down to the exact minute we welcome Shabbat, to the precise physical size of the matzah we eat and how quickly we must eat it.
If "fulfillment" means all of this real, detailed, physical devotion is gone, you haven't fulfilled the system. You've erased it.
Would love to hear anyone's honest thoughts on this linguistic, scriptural, and practical reality!
Thanks for your kind and thoughtful reply.
We both agree the actual text of the Hebrew Scriptures should not be altered. The key difference is in how we understand “fulfillment” and what the original intent of the Tanakh really was.
In Hebrew, the word behind the New Testament idea of “fulfill” the Torah (as in Matthew 5:17) is lekayem(לְקַיֵּם). It comes from the root qum (to rise/stand) and literally means to uphold, establish, confirm, or carry out properly. To lekayem a commandment means to properly interpret it so that it can be actively and physically performed as God intended—not to conceptualize it or embody it so perfectly that the physical action is no longer required. You see this root used throughout the Tanach when God “establishes” (mekim) His covenants so they stand firm.
From the perspective of Jewish history—from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, through our years in the desert, the Temple eras, and millennia of diaspora—the entire idea of a single individual showing up to "fulfill" the commandments on our behalf is entirely out of context. To us, the mitzvot are not a checklist of demands that God needed accomplished, such that if we fell short, He had to step in and do it Himself. That would imply God has limitations or needs.
Instead, Judaism teaches that the mitzvot are an ongoing, eternal opportunity given by God for us to emulate Him and act like Him. They are a continuous way of living, not a job description to be finished. We see this absolute permanence promised directly throughout the scriptures:
•Deuteronomy 29:28 explicitly states, "The revealed things belong to us and to our children forever, to observe all the words of this Torah." God commands that the laws are for action (to observe) and for an infinite duration (forever).
•Deuteronomy 13:1 strictly guards the text from future alterations or updates: "Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall neither add to it nor subtract from it."
•Ezekiel 37:24 emphasizes that the future Messianic era will involve a return to these physical laws, not a departure from them: "My servant David shall be king over them... they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes, and do them."
When the true Messiah comes, the physical actions of the mitzvot will be upheld even more powerfully and universally—they certainly won't cease.
That’s why, from a traditional Jewish perspective, the clear intent of the Hebrew Scriptures is that the Jewish people keep the mitzvot God commanded us at Sinai — in detail, including the very practices described in Deuteronomy 6 (the mezuzah verse with “yadecha” on your hand). The precision we guard in every handwritten letter of the mezuzah reflects how seriously God takes His exact words and the exact way of life He gave us.
To me, “fulfillment” (in the sense of making the Sinai covenant and its physical mitzvot obsolete or "fully realized" to the point of cessation for Jews) shifts the plain, original meaning and undermines what God explicitly told the Jewish people to observe forever. If lekayem means to uphold through ongoing action, then the fulfillment reading ends up doing the opposite of what the Hebrew idiom itself suggests.
Using fabricated nature myths to evangelize people through emotional manipulation is both intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt. When King David cried, "I am a worm, and no man," he was expressing raw Jewish humility and absolute powerlessness in the face of his enemies—a concept praised in Talmud Chullin 89a where great leaders intentionally minimize their stature before God. Forcing a pseudo-scientific insect story onto this verse to twist it into a prophecy about a divine sacrifice completely perverts the text. A worm does not choose to be crushed, and David used the imagery to show he felt lower than a human, making it the ultimate contradiction to use this verse to validate a man who claimed to be God.
Stealing the authentic prayers of Jewish suffering and rewriting them to fit a foreign theology is a form of cultural erasure that targets human vulnerability rather than seeking truth. Bypassing a person’s critical thinking with dramatic, engineered stories about "crimson blood" and "three days" is psychological coercion, not education. When teachers knowingly distort the plain context, language, and historical reality of Hebrew Scripture just to trigger a guilt-driven emotional response, they are acting deceptively. True faith is built on intellectual honesty and textual integrity, not on predatory tactics that use fake science to manipulate people's feelings.
To understand the true depth of Proverbs 5:15–23, you have to look past the surface and decode the specific Hebrew vocabulary King Solomon used. Solomon explicitly states in Proverbs 1:6 that his book is written in "metaphors and figures" (mashal u'melitzah), signaling to the reader that these physical warnings contain a deeper spiritual blueprint.
When verse 15 commands you to "drink water from your own cistern," it is using an established biblical metaphor where "water" represents divine doctrine (as seen in Isaiah 55:1, where God says, "Everyone who thirsts, come to the water"). Therefore, your own "cistern" is the authentic Torah of Moses. Conversely, the seductive adulteress is called a "strange woman" (Zarah). In the Hebrew Bible, this is the exact same root used to describe "foreign gods" (Elohim Zarim) and unsanctioned religious practices.
This framework perfectly explains verse 17, which commands: "Let them be yours alone, and not for strangers with you." The commentators explain that you must first master the Torah within yourself so your spiritual foundation is unshakable, warning you never to pollute your well by mixing the pure truth of the Torah with foreign, incompatible theological concepts.
This spiritual allegory becomes undeniable in verse 19, which says of the wife/Torah: "let her breasts satisfy you at all times." As the Talmud (Eruvin 54b) explains, this is a precise description of textual study: just as an infant finds fresh milk every single time it returns to nurse, a student of Torah finds brand-new depth, vitality, and meaning every single time they review the original text.
By using this specific covenantal language, the text proves its own deeper intention: it is a universal warning against spiritual adultery. While Solomon originally applied this to the pagan cults of his era, the textual blueprint applies perfectly as a warning to remain loyal to the original Torah and stay away from newer, external theological systems like the New Testament. The text warns that while foreign doctrines may sound "smoother than oil," abandoning your native heritage for them ultimately leads to spiritual ruin. Because the Torah's wisdom is endless and self-renewing, you never need to look outside of it to satisfy your spiritual thirst.
In relation to God, the Jewish Messiah is from God only as a chosen servant and Davidic descendant, he will know God through unparalleled human prophecy (Isaiah 11:2), and he will be a mortal king who is absolutely not divine. Jews wait for a human leader because if the Messiah must be God to fix the world, then human nature is a failure and we lose. As a Jew, I already taste this kingdom when I pray, learn, and do Mitzvahs, proving the physical body is a deeply spiritual tool; we simply need the ultimate Messiah to act as a master conductor who puts the rest of the world on the same page.
Christianity claims to solve the human condition, but an invisible, spiritual rescue mission for individual souls to escape to heaven is not a final or good salvation—it leaves the physical world entirely abandoned to corrupt tyrants, war, and disease. While Christians try to dismantle this by arguing that human hearts are too broken by sin to change without a divine sacrifice, God explicitly states in the Torah that we are fully capable of choosing good, declaring that the commandments are "not in heaven... but very near you, in your heart, that you may do it" (Deuteronomy 30:11-14). Furthermore, Christians invent a "Second Coming" because Jesus died without fulfilling the actual prophecies, but the Hebrew Bible gives a strict, single checklist: building the Temple, ingathering the exiles, and bringing world peace.
The Jewish Messiah brings a physical triumph to Earth that non-Jews should actually marvel at and desire. In this future, you do not convert to Judaism; instead, you play the vital, dignified role of co-heirs to global peace—partnering to dismantle systemic evil and filling the earth with the knowledge of God while retaining your own unique nations and cultures. When a mortal king inspires all of humanity to successfully perfect this physical creation, both humanity and God win, proving that our shared history was not a tragic mistake and that God's earthly blueprint actually works.
@EYakoby The irony is perfect. A Jew stands as a light to the nations — while a masked thug in a red hoodie weaponizes a blinding strobe against him. One carries tradition and resilience. The other carries intimidation. Who’s really in the dark here?
It baffles me how blind you are to any claim about Jesus, yet crystal clear when others do the same.
You reject this miracle as “BS” because it twists God’s Word. Exactly.
Jesus is the ultimate twist: turning a man into God and idol worship — all justified by reported miracles.
We believe in miracles from God. We don’t rewrite His Word because of them.
Mazel tov on raising your beautiful Jewish daughters—what a meaningful privilege! Teaching them the ways of Torah with love ensures they carry our heritage forward, helping guarantee vibrant Jewish great-grandchildren amid the very real risks of assimilation that so many families quietly face today.
Alex, your analogy just roasted Christianity: the no dad brother is literally the virgin birth myth—no father for Jesus. Hoax exposed.
Christians, wake up. Turn back to Hashem who loves and misses you.
If you’re truly against cowering and want to stop compromising the language, why not use the full, accurate title: King of the Jews? I wonder how many people screaming the slogan are willing to include that part. As a religious Jew, I know that Yimloch Hashem le’olam—Hashem is the only King, and that truth will be clear to the whole world when the true Moshiach comes.
Using a translation doesn't make it the original; it makes it a tool for the audience. The New Testament authors quoted the Septuagint for the same reason a modern preacher quotes an English Bible: their audience spoke the language of the empire. But a translation is not a source. The Dead Sea Scrolls provide physical, archaeological proof of the Hebrew Torah existing centuries before the Greek translation was even commissioned. As Jews, we are the living witnesses of this transmission; for over 3,300 years, we have maintained the exact same Hebrew text, letter for letter, without change. The claim that Greek is the 'original' is a historical fraud that collapses under the weight of the actual manuscripts. The Church historically suppressed Hebrew precisely because they knew that the original language exposes the mistranslations and theological shifts found in the Greek and Latin versions. If you can’t read the Hebrew, you aren't seeing the truth—you’re seeing a 2,000-year-old game of 'telephone'.
If you’re truly against cowering and want to stop compromising the language, why not use the full, accurate title: King of the Jews? I wonder how many people screaming the slogan are willing to include that part. As a religious Jew, I know that Yimloch Hashem le’olam—Hashem is the only King, and that truth will be clear to the whole world when the true Moshiach comes.
The claim that the Greek Septuagint is the 'original' text is historically inaccurate; the Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, meaning 70) was a translation commissioned in the 3rd century BCE specifically to bring the pre-existing Hebrew Torah to the Greek-speaking world of Alexandria. According to historical records like the Letter of Aristeas and the Talmud, 70 (or 72) Jewish elders were tasked with translating the Five Books of Moses from their original Hebrew into Greek, not the other way around. While Greek does have a larger total vocabulary, the Hebrew Torah's complexity lies in its roughly 8,000–9,000 unique root words which, through prefixes, suffixes, and conjugations, expand into a highly precise and sophisticated text of nearly 80,000 total words. We still possess the original Hebrew text today in the Masoretic tradition, confirming that the Hebrew 'original' is a historical reality, while the Greek Septuagint is its most famous early translation.
Brother, I hear the lion's roar in your post — loud, unapologetic, no need for anyone's approval. You're a Jew and an Israeli, full stop. That fire is real, and in these times, it’s understandable. "If you prick me, YOU will bleed" — that's the fighter in you, flipping the script like the old tunes you love. Ruth Etting sang through her own storms back in the day, and that line you dropped ("You gotta love me, or leave me alone") hits different when it's coming from someone who refuses to shrink. Respect.
But let me play with that music analogy a bit, because every great song has more than one verse. Hashem didn't create us just to belt out defiance against the haters — though standing tall against them is part of the melody. He wants your song, the full composition He wrote into your soul the day you were born. The Torah calls the Torah itself a shirah — a song (Devarim 31:19, 32:1-43, the Song of Ha'azinu at the very end of the Torah). It's not a dry rulebook; it's the ultimate love song between Hashem and the Jewish people. Learning it, living it — that's not some side gig. It's the main stage, the real job of a Jew. When we open the Gemara, dive into a Rambam, or even just say a heartfelt Shema, we're hitting the notes that make the heavens sing along.
Right now your track has that raw, gritty edge — "come and get it" energy. Powerful for survival, no doubt. But Hashem is waiting with open arms, not for a softer version of you, but for the deeper, richer cut. He loves you exactly as you are — the fighter, the proud son of Israel, the one who won't justify himself to the world. That love is unbreakable, like a parent who never stops loving their kid no matter how far they roam or how loud the rebellion gets. Teshuvah from love (ahavat Hashem) isn't about groveling or losing your edge; it's about choosing to come closer because the connection feels better than the fight alone. Rambam teaches that when we return out of that love, we get even closer to Hashem than before — He turns the distance into intimacy.
Imagine adding that layer to your song: the same unapologetic Jewish pride, but now harmonizing with the sweetest melody — learning Torah for real, letting it fill you up, letting Hashem's love pour through every verse. He doesn't need you to "earn" it. He's already holding the door wide open, arms outstretched, saying, "Come home, My son. Sing with Me."
You've got the voice. You've got the roots (even the old Ruth Etting era vibes show you're not afraid of going deep into the catalog). Why not let the next track be the one that echoes through eternity — the one where the Jew stands strong and sings straight to Hashem?
If you're open to it, I'd love to be your study partner once a week — just you and me, diving into a bit of Torah together, no pressure, keeping that same strength and adding the sweetness. My DMs are open whenever you're ready.
I've noticed something that happens again and again in how people feel toward Jews. At first there's often a warm pull: "I really like them — I wish they'd fully join our world, our communities, our way of life." But once Jews become part of the group and start standing out in their own way, something shifts. Unease creeps in, and the desire flips to "Maybe they should keep more to themselves" or even "They don't belong here after all."
Rabbi Yeruchom Levovitz, a wise Jewish teacher, saw this not as mere politics or personal opinions, but as something deeper and more natural — like the fundamental difference between water and fire. In science we see beautiful examples of them working together for a time: fire can boil water to create powerful steam that drives engines and heats homes; deep in the ocean, hydrothermal vents blend superheated water (fired by Earth's inner heat) with cold seawater, creating rich chemical energy that supports entire thriving ecosystems of strange and wonderful life. They interact productively under the right conditions, yet their core natures remain opposite — one can't fully merge with the other without tension or change.
The same is true for Jews and Gentiles in this world. We each have distinct roles to play, and that's okay. A practical way forward is simple appreciation without forcing complete sameness: admire the Zionists for rebuilding and working the land of Israel with dedication; respect the religious Jews for faithfully preserving and living the Torah through the generations; and recognize how Christians and Muslims have carried the core idea of one God — monotheism — to countless nations across the world. When each of us honors our own unique mission instead of demanding total blending, the natural friction eases and real coexistence becomes possible.
In the end, the deepest harmony between "Jacob and Esau" will arrive naturally with the coming of the Mashiach. Then all these separate contributions will weave together in a perfected world, and the struggle that began even in Rebecca's womb will finally turn into true peace and mutual uplift.