MG NH

I had a very witty bio written, unfortunately it would take far beyond the 160 character limit of twitter Bios to fully express. Thus, know that I am but a man.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

The church is actually instructed to 'gatekeep'.
What follows is a grok-generated response on that very topic. At a glance, it looks pretty good to me.

Here are key New Testament passages that instruct believers to guard, protect, or defend core Christian beliefs against false teachings, distortions, or additions. These emphasize preserving the apostolic faith, rejecting "different gospels," identifying and avoiding false teachers, and contending actively for sound doctrine—actions some might describe as "gatekeeping" the church's beliefs.

Jude 1:3 (contending for the faith)
"Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you urging you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints." (See also Jude 4, which condemns those who creep in unnoticed and pervert grace.)

This is one of the clearest calls: believers must actively fight to defend the original, unchanging body of apostolic teaching.

Galatians 1:6-9 (no other gospel)
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

Paul strongly rejects any alteration to the core gospel message.

Romans 16:17
"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them."

Direct instruction to identify and avoid those promoting contrary doctrines.

1 Timothy 1:3-4 and 6:20-21
(charge others not to teach differently; guard the deposit)"As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths..." (1 Tim 1:3-4).

"Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you—turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge..." (1 Tim 6:20-21).

Paul tells church leaders to actively correct and prevent deviant teaching while protecting the "deposit" of truth.

Titus 1:9 (elders holding to sound doctrine)
"[An overseer] must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it."

Leaders are required to defend and refute errors.

2 John 1:9-11 (do not receive false teachers)
"Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work."

This warns against extending fellowship or support to those who deviate from Christ's teaching.

Acts 20:28-31 (Paul's warning to elders)
"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock... I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard!"
Elders must vigilantly protect the flock from internal and external threats to the truth.

Other supporting passages
Matthew 7:15 — Jesus: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

2 Timothy 4:3-4 — A warning about people rejecting sound doctrine for what their ears want to hear.

Ephesians 5:11 — "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."

These passages show the early church was instructed not only to believe the gospel but to protect its purity by teaching sound doctrine, refuting errors, avoiding or marking false teachers, and contending earnestly. The emphasis is on fidelity to what was "once for all delivered," rather than open-ended innovation or unchecked tolerance of divergent views on core truths. Interpretations vary across Christian traditions on exactly where to draw lines, but the biblical pattern of doctrinal vigilance is clear.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

"Just pointing out that polygamy has not always been a forbidden practice and even sanctioned on occasion." I'll give you that God tolerated polygamy, but I re-read my own comments and I never said it was forbidden. In fact, I said "You could argue that Jesus doesn't specifically forbid multiple marriages, which is true."
Why are you having trouble respecting me if I already said what you wanted me to say, such that you might respect me for it?
Have you considered respecting Jesus' words? That's what I've been trying to encourage this entire time. Don't take Smith's words over Jesus'.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Just like we sometimes use 'heavens' to describe the sky the birds fly through, or the vast expanse the stars rest in, so did they use 'Ouranos' to describe both the sky, the stars, and heaven.
The 'third heaven' is after the bird-sky-heaven, and the star-heaven. It's not that complicated. The US air force song sings about soaring through the heavens. If I told you to look at the stars in the heavens you'd look up to the night sky.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

@Phactuality @RazorFist And how would you know if you have such authority exclusively? Besides taking Smith's word for it?

[MG NH @Torgmada]

@TravelbytheCoin @FatherChrisVor1 @stefeskander @PeacemakingSt Okay, well, you can continue to weave yourself a nice little path around Jesus' words if you want to, but I can't recommend it. You're better off listening to him, than Smith's explanations as to why 'well Jesus didn't mean it exactly that way.....'

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Abraham married his half sister if you're going down that route. Later this was specifically forbidden.
Instructions only apply after they were given. Did you notice how God let Cain live, and even protected him? But then later says that whoever murders a man must be put to death.
Calling some of those guys 'church leaders' is a bit of a stretch anyway. The first three are patriarchs, the last was a king; who had a caste of priests doing the duties analogous to 'church leaders.'
You can also go back to God's perfect design in the Garden of Eden, before the fall. It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and a harem. That's a relationship God made, and you can use as an example.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

It's not that complicated. Church- it's Christ's Church, the body of all believers. Earthly organizations are important in that they help build up the body of Christ, but if you want perfect men to follow, you'll be disappointed. A number of times Jesus blessed 'All those who believe' , not 'this dude, and then his successor, and then his successor......' You can battle that out with the Catholics if you like but it's an uninteresting question for protestants. Go find a place that has sound Biblical teachings. (not one that constantly needs to counter, correct, or 'update' Jesus' words, as Joseph Smith did.)
Which Bible?- We have more material today to accurately reproduce the original text and meaning than we've ever had before. We have many more resources than we had when the KJV was translated from the available material. You can go back to the original Greek or Hebrew with 99% certainty, and the remaining 1% doesn't affect any significant doctrine. I hope you become interested in how hard people are working to give you an accurate Bible in your language. There are many faithful translations out there. The differences in translations and uncertainty remaining about the original text are all very minor, and most modern translations have foot notes explaining these things to you.
Which Creed? The Nicene Creed will do nicely, and it's plainly based on the Bible.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Yeah Jesus would have mentioned that if there was any truth to Smith's 'revelation', Unless you say Jesus didn't have the authority to make the sort of eternal marriages you claim to exist under Mormon 'priesthood authority'.

Jesus also taught on marriage being between two people, and Joseph Smith felt the need to 'correct' (or 'clarify' or 'update' ) that teaching too.
And people still try to do that today. When some charismatic 'Christian' leader claims to get a 'new revelation' it's always tied to him having multiple women. Rich Tidwell is the most recent one.
You could argue that Jesus doesn't specifically forbid multiple marriages, which is true. However when he describes marriage it's only between one man and one woman. Further, Paul said that church leaders must be the husband of one wife, so Smith, Young and many others are disqualified from leading anything.
Accordingly, my friend, I encourage you to follow Jesus, not Joseph, and urge you not accept any attempts to explain away what Jesus said.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Now you're believing in a Jesus that wasn't sufficient the first time around. Someone who couldn't protect his word. Someone who couldn't plan ahead. A different Jesus. A lesser Jesus.
The Bible does describe ongoing prophecy, but it's role is to give the specific, timely help that is warranted, consistent with what God has already revealed; not to re-write everything about God, eternity, and the afterlife.
"Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.' (Matthew 24:35)
You believe in a Jesus whose words pass away. There's a huge difference between ongoing personal prophecy meant to build up a person or a local church (Biblical), and what Smith did- changing all the teachings about God, this life, and the afterlife.
My friend I appreciate you sticking with me this long. I pray you are as innocent as a dove and as wise as a serpent! (Matthew 10:6)

[MG NH @Torgmada]

No, I don't think Jesus is lying. I think Smith contradicts Jesus. He didn't 'Elaborate' or 'Explain', he countered Jesus, and justified it by couching it as an 'explanation' or 'elaboration'
If a false prophet came along, how would he justify teaching differently than what Jesus said? How would he justify it? What tactics would he use?

[Darshak Rana ⚡️ @thedarshakrana]

The Woodpecker is the only proof that God really exists.

And I'm going to prove it to you right NOW:🧵

[MG NH @Torgmada]

You're essentially saying Jesus changed his mind on things he spoke clearly about. But Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8).
Smith was 'updating' God's word; I think it's more likely Smith was a false prophet (which the Bible warns us about) than God his changed his mind.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Ok, but your 'continuing relevation' on general matters applicable to all means what Jesus said isn't binding; so he's just a figure head. He's not really your Lord if what he said is subject to correction by men.
It seems we are in agreement, as far as you listen to Joseph Smith over Jesus.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Are you aware of any of the effort Christendom has put into making sure the text we have today is a faithful transmission of what was first recorded? If you're going to claim the Word was transmitted to you incorrectly on any particular point, you need to bring proof. For your convenience, many modern Bibles translations are already annotated with the remaining questions. The potential issues don't amount to a hill of beans; they certainly don't come close to justifying Mormon attacks on the Bible's integrity through the ages.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

You seem to be saying Jesus gave Peter and subsequent church leaders the ability to override clear teachings of his (Jesus's). Do you agree with me then?

The Saducees in Mark 12 posed their question about eternal marriage! And Jesus said their question revealed they didn't know the scriptures or the power of God! If Eternal marriage was a thing, Jesus would have spoken about it here, not clearly rebuked the very concept of 'eternal marriage'!

You seem to be saying Joseph Smith did in fact have the authority to directly counter Jesus.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

Well, Jesus said marriage was for this life only, and Joseph Smith has you doing eternal marriage ceremonies in your temples.
You explain away Jesus' plain words by saying 'well Jesus meant no new marriages', but if that's what he meant, he would have said the first or the last marriage.

[MG NH @Torgmada]

@FatherChrisVor1 Well it's wrong, whatever it is, but does error prevent one from being saved? Can you rightly make a blanket statement that 'Members of this organization are automatically damned'?

[MG NH @Torgmada]

The LDS concept of 'infinite atonement' essentially means that the LDS god(s) don't respect the free will that God gave us. If someone decides they want nothing to do with God- and a great many make such a choice- then is it not just that God respects that decision? Why make you free, if your freedom ultimately doesn't matter? Why give you the opportunity to love Him, if your lack of love for Him doesn't ultimately matter?
Perhaps you say that that your god just allows infinite time for someone to change their mind; but the Bible- which you claim to respect - says that it is appointed for man to die once and then face judgement (Hebrews 9:27), and the dead are beyond our help (Luke 16:19-31).

[MG NH @Torgmada]

@TravelbytheCoin @PeacemakingSt @FatherChrisVor1 Wait, are you okay following deception because it's supernatural in origin? The Bible warns us against such things for good reason!