I am so grateful for @albertmohler who is doing hard things which no other Southern Baptist can get done.
There he is, distinguished and reasonable, the SBC's most consequential elder/pastor trying to help the nation's leading Protestant voluntaryist organization do the (biblical) right thing. God bless you Dr. Mohler and may reasonable Southern Baptists (and I personally count George Washington Truett a cousin) rally around your motion for the truth and unity amendment to the BFM. #SBC #SBC26, #SBC2026, #SBCAnnualMeeting
@derekradney I'd really challenge you to rethink that. Nuance breeds ambiguity. And I've seen that destroy people and churches.
I'm all for healthy debate and differences in opinion. Nuance has no place and certainly doesn't bring clarity.
@derekradney@JoshuaMRieger The denomination is against ordaining women. To use an overture to change that is to weaponize the process, the exact thing Coffin is insinuating the other side is doing. To not admit that is dishonest.
@derekradney@JoshuaMRieger Sure. But if O37 passes, it affects the entire denomination and how it's viewed. To say something like that doesn't "impact your own church or presbytery" is dishonest and not true.
I know you said you're against O37 personally, but doesn't that overture fit the exact point Coffin is making in terms of "advanc(ing) a particular cause"?
We "constrain" local sessions in a lot of ways with the BCO. Seeking to give the local Session more freedom is no better than seeking to constrain it more. There are two sides of the ditch....
@TronCarterNLU Just a brutal start for CBS. Not showing shots from the number 1 player in the world in contention at the greatest golf tournament in the world...🤯
John 8:44
[44] You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
@presbycast When they get defeated (and I pray they will soundly!), do you see the churches and presbyteries that are pushing for this actually change their current practice? Or will they continue to undermine the BCO?
So I agree with your “element” and “form” distinction. That’s very helpful.
I very much wish you were right about “all consider corporate worship to be a service of covenant renewal.” That’s not the case (given a conversation I had with a TE who was very adamant he didn’t view it that way).
But, if our current worship is to be grounded in a covenant renewal service (which I agree with!), which stems from the OT, and there aren’t any female leaders of that service in the OT, then I have a hard time jumping to allowing women to read Scripture to the congregation in the public worship service. I know that we would agree on who is to lead the service, and I think you would say that, in this example, a woman reading Scripture is not “leading,” but rather speaking to one another (like Eph 5 and Col 3 says). But when a woman gets up to read Scripture to the congregation, from the same place the minister preaches, it sure does look like leading. I’m not disregarding what you said about the Session giving thought and explaining to the congregation the distinction (in and where the minister is reading vs the layperson), but I think the practicality of that is really hard, especially for infrequent visitors, who you note are one of the audiences.
I realize you might take this critique as form and not element. But I believe that when Scripture is read to the congregation, that person is leading them in God’s word, based on what Scripture says about corporate worship. So then how can Eph 5 and Col 3 be interpreted in light of that? Well the Responsive Reading element of worship would seem to fit that. Corporate singing would obviously also fit that. When the congregation reads responsively, they aren’t speaking with authority to one another, but reading God’s authoritative word out loud so others can hear and be mutually encouraged. That would be my take on “laypersons addressing one another.” As opposed to a singular lay person addressing multiple lay people from a position that communicates authority (stage, pulpit, microphone, etc…). I’m not convinced Scripture speaks to that element in corporate worship. As you pointed out, “Paul also teaches that ministers should devote themselves to the public reading of Scripture (1 Tim 4:13).” Obviously it’s the ministers job to read, preach, teach, exhort, etc the Word to the congregation. And if that’s a function of Scripture, then I can’t find Biblical warrant for a layperson doing that in a similar setting as the minister.
@derekradney Thanks for the article. I might not agree with all of it (which is ok!) but I do appreciate the thoughtfulness you put in to leading the congregation God has blessed you with.
@RevBCD@ZacharyGarris Come on Brad, you just don't understand "nuance" 🙄. This is their preferred term about everything.
Thanks for your words. You're spot on.
@derekradney@Jacob_A_Webb@warne@ZacharyGarris We would never call an actress an "assistant actor" or a waitress an "assistant actor". Some might not like or agree with it but that's certainly a natural inference.
@derekradney@Jacob_A_Webb@warne@ZacharyGarris We would never call an actress an "assistant actor" or a waitress an "assistant actor". Some might not like or agree with it but that's certainly a natural inference.
@derekradney@Jacob_A_Webb@warne@ZacharyGarris I'm a RE and don't know what "deaconess" means (but if put on the spot I'd say, female deacon). Seems like at the very least we could all agree on an appropriate definition. If not, maybe a qualifier is necessary and helpful.