Revvo

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@remoteviewer420 @TheExBeliever A being taking life and condoning undeserved suffering is not worthy of worship though.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@TheExBeliever I mean he ordered it though (1 Samuel 15:3)

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Well slave owners applied the same argumentation you are pulling here. Your rigid dependency on this madness makes you just feel like in your case it's ok because you are right. This reveals a fundamental problem with belief and shows why it needs to be overcome.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Non-argument. Religion being nicer, usefully, good for society etc. does not make it true. Also by that logic it would be fine to replace it with a more functional belief.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree That is the difference. For my model sin existing (as self inflicted suffering) is no problem. But for you the mere existence of non deserved suffering of the innocent, which clearly exists, is a major problem. So you have to take these insane despicable stances to justify it.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree I just feel like that is a more fitting explanation. Would not bet on it though, after all the Bible is an incoherent mess, putting any certainty on any interpretation would be highly illogical.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Timelessness is a core concept of the enlightened state and expressing to be before the past matches that. John 17:21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us" describes a unity with god not.exvlusive to Jesus.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree I believe Jesus was enlightened in the way a zen master is - I believe he never claimed to be god but described oneness with the united consciousness. I think the authors of the bible did not really understand him, I believed he talked in riddles, so the bible means nothing to me

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Very generalized and simple dismissal. Humans arose as a tribal species, compassion, Empathy, love all hold evolutionary value. Animals show similar behaviors as well. Also here is your incoherence: suffering is rarely chosen, the innocent suffer, animals suffer.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Sounds like a very absurd way for a almighty being to teach that lesson. Also very inappropriate to give meaning to the suffering that destroyed the lifes of others. God could arise by showing himself instead.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Incoherent is that this is not a loving god. That is a slave owner. Not the being Jesus talked about. At least you are upfront about this and don't paint the usual new testament only image of god. I'm glad I don't believe in God's existence, this god is appalling.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree I like the argument of probability. If you did not know the world and only had the Bible and the naturalistic evolutionary theory. Based on both what would you expect to see in the world? The idea of god stands in contradiction to suffering. Suffering is expected in the other one

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Problem with that line of thinking is, that this means hitler was sanctioned by god. The promise of a divine justice after death rings extremely hollow and feels like the cheapest form of wishful thinking.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree And you are doing the same. That is the very point. The Bible is not coherent. It contains passages that align with the typical idea of god, and there are lines that directly contradict it. The infant killing is just one things, but the general point is: it's not reliable.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Donza6778 @zeta_t_1968 @trad_west_ Now you are just saying things disconnected from reality. Even if the universe would expand forever there are many more models of infinity, like the multiverse or universes being born from collapsing black holes of a parent universe. Don't treat you mind like garbage.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@zeta_t_1968 @Donza6778 @trad_west_ I assume it's the fine tuning argument in line with rare earth. Suggestion the conditions of earth would not support life if only the tiniest of variables would be different, especially with the laws of physics. However as said, if infinity exists the rarity doesn't matter.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Donza6778 @zeta_t_1968 @trad_west_ Imagine the multiverse is true and there are infinite universes, or the universe is eternal and collapses just to explode again over and over. No matter how unlikely or fine tuned a universe needed to be, if infinity exists, so would infinite perfectly unlikely universes.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree the bible is not evidence of it's own correctness. I won't judge human capabilites based on a story from it. man has not surpassed itself, but the god you are describing is on the level of a low, animalistic man. Vengeful, cruel, confused, envious. Time to let that die.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree Although I enjoy this discussion, this is hard to stomache, and it makes me feel like one would almost have to suffer from brain damage to see it that way. Butchering infants is never just. Just because one side does it, doesn't give that right to the other.

[Revvo @xRevvOx]

@Lag_Incarnate @Urban__Tree well we don't have grounds to argue on the value of god, because I see no evidence for his existance. I can only say the idea of god is part of that chaotic messed up time. It's not humans straying from god. God is an expression of the primitive chaos within humans.