Johan

Theology. Family. Design. Dev.

[Johan @xprsza]

Me just now: what a beautiful sunrise. Wife: Ja, looks like a giant braai behind the hills.

I love my wife and South Africa

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Thanks for the dialogue. I will stop now. I do not know your heart and don't know you as people. But my observation is that for some reason, you turn many verses around to fit your own framework of thinking instead of letting the text speak for itself. Please pray about it

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Those who do believe — it is they who were borne of God.
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
Jhn1:12

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz The scripture teaches that those taught by God come to Jesus. Those drawn by the Father come to Jesus. It does not suggest that those who learn from the Father reject him. It suggests (they) come to Jesus.

[Johan @xprsza]

@rootcausesleuth @troywojick @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz But Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father draws him or grants him. What you are saying is believing in Jesus comes before God draws a person. This is not the order that the text.

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz If that is true why does Jesus say 'this is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father'?

[Johan @xprsza]

@rootcausesleuth @troywojick @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Look at the context here. Jesus says 'this is why I told you no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father' directly after speaking of those who do not believe and who would betray him. His point is it is the Spirit who gives life.

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz How are these unreasonable assumptions based on this text?

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz It doesn't say they seek or follow Him. What it does say is: 1. those whom the Father draws he teaches. 2. Those taught by the Father, come to Jesus.
So we can deduce from this that unless one is drawn and taught by God, he cannot come to Jesus. We are saved by this grace

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz No, I'm saying the verse in the Word of God says 'No one can can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws Him.' — Jesus Christ

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Not sure how the text I'm referring to relates to compatibilism. I'm comfortable with the fact that some things of God cannot be fully comprehended such as the Trinity and Predestination. But I won't deny it's teaching in scripture.

[Johan @xprsza]

@rootcausesleuth @troywojick @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz I agree that those who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus. I just believe the text teaches that's those are they whom the Father drew unto himself. Jesus said no one can come to me (unless) the Father draws him.

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz I don't think you are rude. But what is your point here? Does not say anything about people already seeking God. In fact it says 'and they will be taught by God'. It says unless the Father draws Him.

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Can you show my in the text (or context) why you believe those who the Father gives to the Son are those who were already by faith seeking God?

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz So I'm curious to know where you get the idea in this text that they were seeking him and therefore He is now giving them to the Son. That sounds very strange.

[Johan @xprsza]

@troywojick @rootcausesleuth @warrenmyers @CherylSchatz Then yes I believe that label does describe what I believe :). Thanks for your answer on the verse from John. I'm curious how you come to that conclusion from the text. Because it doesn't say they were already seeking. That sounds like a reward.