FlowGoCrazy

Onchain Eng | @SwarmsFNF

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

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[Lore Alerts @LoreAlerts]

🚨BREAKING: @Winna has finally released its Slide VIP data, 13 weeks after it was requested.

@provablyfairorg has reviewed it independently. Every number checks out. But it still doesn’t prove the game was fair.

All 13,125 rounds were recalculated. Every result matches its seed. The player’s 62 bets match. The game fits its 98% RTP.

So what’s the problem?

The client seed never changed. It was the hash of Bitcoin block 779,588, public since March 2023. That means the result of every server seed was known the second it was created, before it was ever assigned to a round.

Winna says seeds came in order from a pool of 10 million. But there’s no copy of that pool, no record of its creation, and no proof of the order they were used.

Even Winna’s 1 in 107 odds for a loss this big can’t be checked, because the player’s full target multipliers were never published.

The kicker? Winna’s own public Slide, launched 18 May while Slide VIP was still live, uses a hash chain and a future Bitcoin block to stop exactly this.

Slide VIP had neither 👀

@provablyfairorg’s verdict is unchanged: not proof of manipulation, but not provably fair either.

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@provablyfairorg How many weeks before a response this time? @paulwinnacom @olliewinna @Winna

[ProvablyFair.org @provablyfairorg]

13 weeks after our request for data, Winna has published its side. We’ve reviewed it independently; here’s what the evidence shows, so players can judge for themselves.

- Our verdict is unchanged: on the evidence supplied, Slide VIP was NOT provably fair.

-That is not a finding that results were manipulated. Winna’s numbers in the evidence package add up; what’s missing is independently verifiable evidence of how each round’s seed was chosen.

WHAT WINNA'S DATA SHOWS

We independently recalculated all 13,125 rounds Winna published, and every result matches its seed. The betting records Winna supplied cover only this player, and his 62 bets agree with the records we examined earlier. Results across the whole game are consistent with the stated formula for a 98% theoretical return.

So the round data adds up. But it only shows that each seed produces its result, not how each seed was chosen. Winna also didn’t publish the full list of the player’s target multipliers, so some of its probability figures, including its estimated 1 in 107 chance of a loss at least this large, can’t be independently reproduced from the provided package.

WHAT'S MISSING

Winna says each round used the next seed from a pool of 10 million, created in one batch. The package doesn’t include that original pool, the record of its creation or independent proof of the order in which the seeds were used. What it provides is a record of the 13,125 rounds, published after the fact.

Each Slide VIP result combined Winna’s secret server seed with a client seed. That client seed never changed: it was the hash of Bitcoin block 779,588, public since March 2023.

Because the client seed was already known, each server seed’s result could be calculated the moment the seed was created, before it was assigned to a round. In principle, that would let seeds be picked for their results, and every check above would still pass.

Winna says each round’s hash, a one way fingerprint of its seed, was shown when the round opened. A real pre bet hash stops a seed being swapped after it’s shown. It doesn’t show that the seed was picked fairly in the first place, or that it was really the next one in the pool. We have not seen verifiable proof that those hashes reached the player before he bet.

HOW IT SHOULD WORK

Winna’s own public Slide shows the right way to do it. It launched on 18 May, while Slide VIP was still running, using this design:

A hash chain: 1 secret seed is hashed ten million times over, and only the last hash is published, as the anchor.

Play then runs backwards: each round’s seed, once revealed, hashes to the previous round’s seed, back to the anchor. With complete, numbered public round records, a skipped or swapped seed is detectable.

A future Bitcoin block. The client seed is the hash of a specified Bitcoin block that hasn’t been mined yet, a value no one can know until the block exists. The chain and the choice of block must both be published before that block is mined. That fixes the order of seeds before a single result can be calculated.

Slide VIP as Winna describes it, had neither safeguard.

WHY IT MATTERS

The key question in this dispute is simple: were seeds chosen with their results already known? With the public Slide design, properly implemented, anyone could have checked that against records made before play. With Slide VIP, it rests on Winna’s word.

That cuts both ways: even if Winna’s account is accurate, the published records don’t independently show it.

WHERE THIS LEAVES THE DISPUTE

The dispute remains unresolved on the evidence provided. We cannot establish that the player’s results were manipulated, nor that they weren’t. Winna’s data shows which seed each round used, but a record published afterwards can’t, on its own, show how those seeds were chosen.

The lesson for the industry is that implementation matters. Fairness protections and the records needed to verify them, should be designed and tested before launch. A sound implementation gives players and operators alike evidence anyone can check, so disputes are settled by verification rather than competing accounts.

[Rigster @rigster1]

This is a defence of individual results not being manipulated after the pre-bet hash was published, but not, by itself, proof of provable fairness.

1)

Slide VIP ran in May 2026 using a Bitcoin block from 2023 as its client seed.

Why did you use a Bitcoin block that had already been mined, rather than committing to your server seeds before a future block was mined and using that as the client seed?

And since the Bitcoin hash was already known, what prevented cherry picking seeds before publishing their hashes to reduce the chances of hitting certain targets, potentially lowering RTP or suppressing rare, extreme multipliers? That's particularly relevant to a game where you can only bet over.

Where was the full server-seed pool publicly committed in its original order?

2)

Running a short-lived, shared-result game like this for selected players raises a separate concern.

You can calculate all the upcoming results, while players cannot change the client seed.

So what safeguards stopped you from using that advance knowledge to decide which VIPs to invite and when, based on their typical play, or to take the game offline before results favourable to their usual bets?

Rounds running continuously doesn't help that

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@InnerCircleGrim @SwarmsFNF Thanks Grim! Shot over an overview of my background.

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@BniWael @zeddotdev @t3dotcodes @Empryo_ai 🥳

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@BniWael @Empryo_ai Fire 🔥

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@BniWael Looking great!

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@yogurt_eth Its a 50 transfer limit by @XMoney. Probably resets on a longer time horizon, maybe daily. Doubt it resets in time to get more in before the end of mint, everyone has this limit.

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@vikitweetus Good old python in Notepad++ 😭, then Sublime, then VS Code

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@0xprodz Still got mine looool

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@UrSneakerPlug 🫡

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@18pairsonkith @jpegsfnf hat in the last pic 🤣

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@Jonathann_Yang Would be interested in how much better a faster local model would play without the added latency. I have a hard time believing it would be possible to succeed at a competitive level in RTS games if the model is taking seconds after actions to register them

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@unharmful @SytheIO I ran this restock at eStock back when I was like 13 / 14. Can't believe how far I've come since then this is bringing everything I forgot back 😭

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@tlscipher @cirnocodes My monthly salary of backdoored eStock keys from Tony was on the line if we didn't do well enough. These last couple days have been a real blast from the past. Feeling like I'm one of the only ones of us that ain't founding or working at a startup right now 😂

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@neeshat6 @stellara_io 👀 🤝

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@yashmp2004 I'm more interested in how he's juggling 5 different positions of varying levels at once. They all say "xxxx - Present" lol

[FlowGoCrazy @FlowGoCrazy]

@lolapennySOL Big vouch for Lola from me. Known him since 2020 and owe him credit for a lot of his great alpha and insights over the years. Has a unique view on many opportunities and does great research. Very good background and impressive resume both outside of and within the web3 space.