Gurt

If you have to block the person you were debating, you lost the debate.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Inside of a specific culture, honor is defined by tradition. To follow tradition is honorable and to break from it dishonorable. Other cultures might find certain practices dishonorable, but those other cultures will have different traditions.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Oh absolutely not. Without Skyrim the Empire falls. Skyrim is the main source for Imperial Legionnaires. Ulfric's rebellion meant throwing the best minds at the problem until someone could fix it or the Empire collapsed.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext I don't think so. To me the voice complaints the populace raise ring hollow. It's an excuse they use to justify their breaking from nord tradition because they love the Empire. It didn't matter who Ulfric dueled, or how he dueled them, the result would be the same.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Ulfric's whole shtick is that he's about tradition. He went to jail for following the traditional religion, he filled a traditional role as a legionary, he studied the traditional nord magic. But when he challenged Torygg to a traditional duel you think he broke tradition? What?

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext I doubt very strongly that Ulfric expected the people of Solitude to react the way they did. The civil war was not a certainty, and it was almost swiftly won regardless. Without Tullius the rebellion would have been won before the game started.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Maybe. But remember that Ulfric was running roughshod on the Empire until Tullius entered the picture. Tullius is said to be a brilliant tactical mind, and Ulfric has him at a standstill. After his capture Ulfric was forced to stop leading from the front, too.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext I disagree, I think the Greybeards would deny any use of the voice outside of worship, as they claim. They are monks, after all.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext That's pure speculation. We have no information on how damaged the lands are and it's been between 25 and 30 years.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext No others reported him because he hadn't committed treason, yet. Ulfric toed the line to treason, but didn't cross it. Convincing Torygg to act would have been a massive escalation and a step across that line.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext And I disagree that Ulfric took the worst path. Ulfric took the best path available to him by my reasoning. Following the Concordant is a no-go, trying to persuade others to change is treason, so you do it yourself using tradition and law.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Hammerfell did not lose its southern regions. The Thalmor were occupying those regions when the Concordant was signed. One of the conditions was that the lands in Hammerfell held by the Thalmor would be ceded. Hammerfell rejected this and took the lands back within five years.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Sybil Stentor calls Ulfric's position "just shy of treason". Trying to have Torygg to out and out leave the Empire would absolutely be a step across that line, and Torygg, another Jarl, a housecarl, or an attending court member could report that and have Ulfric jailed for it.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext True, but only the Greybeards know the details of the Way - they've become too insular. The voice was originally a combat art, and the Greybeards take little issue with the Dragonborn shouting his foes down in cold blood.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext The Thalmor are decades away from being ready for a new war at the earliest. They were getting wrecked by the Empire right before Mede folded.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext The guilty parties weren't Ulfric for asking for a payment that was illegal to have, it was the Jarl of Markarth and the Empire official for allowing it to happen.

If a contractor asks to get paid in cocaine he doesn't go to jail when you get caught buying it, you do.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Perhaps, but also consider that as a newly independent nation Hammerfell would likely want to secure alliances with High Rock and Skyrim for mutual protection.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Ulfric *might* have been able to bring Torygg to his side, or he could guarantee himself the throne with a challenge. If Ulfric chose the more diplomatic route failure would mean being jailed by the Empire for treason.
Ulfric didn't see Torygg as an enemy, just as unfit to rule.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext Nords consider the ability to use the voice among the highest honors. Both before and after Skyrim altered the lore surrounding it. To use it means training under the Greybeards, which means earning their approval. Historically the voice was a combat art too.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@Bro_Lionheart @fawazDS9 @blacknredtext They did establish rules for honor duels. The voice isn't prohibited. Other forms of magic might or might not be allowed, but the voice is.

[Gurt @Gurt02]

@theindiescrolls But does it have topless danc... priestesses, does it have priestesses?