Incel Jazz

I harbour no ill will towards any billionaires. socially progressive, fiscally Islamic.

[The Real Frank Zappa Facts @TheRealFZFacts]

Frank Zappa -

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@TenFingerTommy @squirrelypatz Pronounce milk for me right now I dare you.

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@TenFingerTommy Hearing reports Isaac Wood is on the plane 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🦁🦁🦁

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Because I’ve got better things to be doing than explaining Philosophy 101 over X the everything app.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP This conversation is ballooning out into something which can’t be efficiently articulated through tweets. Stay curious and try to apply the same level of scrutiny to your own morality that you do to others’.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Moral relativism and subjective morality aren’t the same thing.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Yeah it’s ultimately subjective. I don’t know what else I could claim? God told me so? CERN discovered the fundamental particle of morality in the large hadron collider?

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Ultimately any moral argument will come down to some axiom which is held to be self evident. It simply doesn’t go any deeper than that. Conscious beings matter because they can suffer, non-conscious beings can’t suffer because they’re not conscious. That’s the loop we’re in.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP You’re still mischaracterising my argument, apply yourself, try responding to the arguments I’ve laid out. Consciousness is the important factor.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP I think we’re just talking in circles now. Responding to stimuli doesn’t indicate awareness, a machine can respond to stimuli. My moral consideration extends to conscious beings and that’s axiomatic to me.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP This source itself says that protecting the environment is morally required insofar as it protects “sentient beings”

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Again I mean sense things as in have a conscious subjective experience.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP There’s a difference between having a preference for something and seeing it as a moral issue. Ultimately I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith if you’re taking the position that cutting the grass is immoral in the same way as torturing a human.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Even if you take the panpsychist view that all matter has consciousness why would we believe a plant can sense releasing a distress signal without nerve endings or a brain? And if it can why can’t I sense my white blood cells being deployed? Is the plant a psychic or wizard?

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP You’re still not following my argument. Morality can only be concerned with the experience of other consciousnesses. If you’re going to give moral weight to non conscious natural processes why stop at plants? Why not a rusting tin can or a towel falling off of a towel rail?

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP No it’s because only the things I experience consciously can I experience as bad. But I’m repeating myself now, at some point you’re going to have to apply yourself and try to follow the progression of a conversation.

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@Soil1s4Future @OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @SOPHONTSIMP If you believe in neither moral objectivity nor moral subjectivity then I would have to conclude you believe in nothing.

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@OUnderfolder @Soil1s4Future @cat_hermit1999 @SOPHONTSIMP See the other thread for why I don’t think it’s possible to “torture” a plant.

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@OUnderfolder @cat_hermit1999 @Soil1s4Future @SOPHONTSIMP Well that’s the question at the heart of ethics. All I know is I have a subjective experience which includes suffering. I feel my suffering is bad and therefore assume other minds experience their suffering as bad. The things I share with plants I experience as neutral.