J Caleb Jones

The world’s leading expert on the Star of the Magi (unfortunately the world doesn’t know it yet). See more at

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

If you’ve ever wanted to know what is happening in the sky in Matthew 2 with the star that the Magi saw, the video that is only available at this website will explain everything that is happening.

And yes, it actually happened exactly as it is described in the text.

The price to watch the video is for you to provide your email address so that you can be informed of future videos, explaining other aspects of the Nativity based on this information about the Star of the Magi.

https://t.co/FmWFzd5ldh

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Uh… that doesn’t sound like a good situation (and yes, it is wrong to steal contact info to start a new church, so don’t do that), but it also sounds like there’s a lot more going on.

It’s also weird that you would try to “disqualify” someone as a pastor, when they are going out to make an INDEPENDENT church. That dog don’t hunt.

But EVEN ASSUMING everything in that letter is true, there is another passage that would apply. That would be Philippians 1:15-18:

“Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.”

[Protestia @Protestia]

Letter sent to folks at Driscoll's church, regarding the departure of one of his pastors and former right hand man.

Statement Regarding Divisive Former Staff Members

Dear Trinity Real Men and Real Women Leaders,
Mentors and Attendees, and Trinity Staff:

We are grieved to have to send this to you.

Julie Krombein has resigned from staff as Real Women's Director. Last week, we were also first notified via email by Caleb Glennie that he and Jill resigned from staff as Real Men's Pastor and Real Women's Coordinator "effective immediately" to "plant a church".

He refused to meet, hand off any duties in defiance of his employment agreement, asked for six months severance, took church members' private information to solicit, urged staff members to resign and follow him, wiped his entire church laptop before returning it, spent money on the church credit card for personal use, had an informational meeting for their church split, and announced a Men's gathering on Tuesdays at 6:30PM within days.

We had no prior knowledge as Caleb has been lying for months. We rebuke Caleb and urge him to repent of sin patterns that have disqualified him as a pastor. The Krombeins are with the Glennies.

Both families will be contacted by our legal representation for stealing and misusing the Real Men and Real Women contact lists.

For those involved, the words of Paul in Acts 20:28-31 are clarifying, "Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood... fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be alert..."

Please be in prayer for your church family, its leadership, along with everyone else involved.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Yes, the original wording was better.

The original wording did not clarify the issue of “pastor” being a name purely of Baptist origin, which is not connected to the commands and offices of the Bible. (Mohler himself has stated the the original BFM use of “pastor” was only because that is what everybody thought was the most common and accepted name for that office.)

However, that vague language at least provided (with “such as”) one firm rock of clarity, which is that preaching to the gathered congregation IS being a pastor/overseer/elder, regardless of whether to call that person a pastor/overseer/elder.

The new language is extremely clear, but (with that “specifically”) is wildly limiting, treating preaching to the gathered congregation as THE ONLY function of a pastor/overseer/elder.

The original version was vague and vaguely good.

The amended version is specific and clearly bad.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Good question, and here’s my long answer.

It depends. The issue isn’t about the act itself. It’s about everything surrounding the act and the purpose of the gathered assembly.

There is no prohibition on women prophesying, and we have explicit descriptions of female prophetesses in the New Testament. I personally think that every time a woman reads a portion of scripture aloud, she is quite literally (and whether she knows it or not) a messenger from God, which is all a “prophet” is.

The prohibition of Paul in 1 Timothy 2:12 is “teaching or exercising authority over a man.” It has nothing to do with the congregation, and the only location mentioned in that passage (assuming it is relevant to verse 12) comes from verse 8: “every place.”

The problem is not WHETHER women can do this stuff, but WHY they want to do it or how it would be understood by the congregation.

If, for example, Elisabeth Elliot was coming to speak to a church on a Sunday and give a basic history of she and her husband’s story being missionaries to unreached people groups, and the congregation was filled with mothers who told their daughters “We’re going to hear Elisabeth Elliot speak at church on Sunday. She’s a good example of how you can be a faithful servant of Christ. It’ll be good for you to hear her.” Then I see no problem with that. People might think that’s the type of thing for a non-Sunday service, which is a fine belief about the purpose of the Sunday gathering, but I see nothing wrong with the event itself.

On the other hand, if the congregation was filled with mothers who told their daughters, “We’re going to hear Elisabeth Elliot speak at church on Sunday. So don’t ever think you can’t also preach one day. She’s an inspiration to us all.” Then that would be a different issue, and I’d have a problem with it, even though the problem isn’t with the event itself.

In our feminist age, I think most women who speak or prophesy or read scripture or whatever aren’t doing it because nobody was available and somebody had to do it. Instead, I think they do it because they aspire to leadership, rather than aspire to service where they are needed.

And since Baptists tend to see the preaching of the word as “prophesying” and the preaching as the whole political my and the act of leadership in that gathering (as opposed to Catholics who see the Eucharist as the point and the office of priest as the leadership), I wouldn’t recommend it.

So, my general answer would be “probably not,” but that’s not a hard and fast rule for me. It’s a more complicated question.

This is why I don’t care that Allie Beth Stuckey has a good and uplifting podcast or that Megan Basham can justifiably slap men in the face with facts that she and she alone has taken the time to find out.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

This is wild.
On the basis of this amendment that changes “such as” to “specifically” regarding women preaching to the gathered congregation, this means women in SBC churches can:

1. Preach (but not to the assembled congregation);
2. Preach to the non-assembled congregation (like in a webinar or video);
3. Be in an instructional teaching/preaching video that is played by a man to the assembled congregation, so long as she is not in the room;
4. Exercise authority over men in the context of marriage counseling;
5. Offer congregational prayers on behalf of the church body;
6. Exercise authority over men in the context of church discipline proceedings;
7. Baptize new converts in front of the assembled congregation;
8. Distribute communion to the assembled congregation;
9. Officiate over communion being distributed to the assembled congregation;
10. Teach scripture to men outside of the assembled congregation;

Whoop-de-doo. Bravo, you conservative champion. Way to stand up for “Truth” and “Unity.”

Might I remind everyone that there is nothing in the Bible that says women cannot “preach.” This might shock you, but the confusion arises because preaching is the most visible function of Baptist elders/overseers.

Instead, the BIBLICAL male-only requirement for the OFFICE OF ELDER/OVERSEER comes from Titus 1:5-9.

But this is not an office of “pastor” or an office of “preacher.” It is an office that INVOLVES AND REQUIRES pastoring and preaching. But that’s a distinction that Baptists need to recognize and understand (and incorporate into their documents).

Also, the prohibition on certain actions of women comes from 1 Timothy 2:8-15. Specifically, 1 Timothy 2:12:

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

NOTE THE ABSENCE OF THE WORD “PREACH” OR “PASTOR.” That is because EVERYONE is required to preach and shepherd in their proper domain.

What Mohler seems to be avoiding is women’s “proper domain,” which is defined in 1 Timothy 2, and is not limited to the gathered assembly.

In order to preserve unity, Mohler has agreed to an amendment that will explicitly authorize what scripture prohibits and explicitly prohibits things that scripture is ambiguous about.

What a mess!!!

[Albert Mohler @albertmohler]

An important update on the Truth & Unity Amendment to the SBC as we get ready to meet in Orlando. We need to get this done and affirm the convictional principles of the SBC.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

So, are you saying Baptists don’t believe the Bible establishes doctrine?

The Bible wasn’t established by a convenanted gathering of the church, and its authority on doctrine extends over and above any individual covenanted gathering of the church.

Also, being in friendly cooperation with the SBC has no effect on the authority of the individual non-included churches.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

@Ander1238Stacy It sounds like a capitulation to the moderates (which acts as a concession to the liberals), which only prohibits the explicitly feminist and liberal.

Looks like he wants a victory and relevance more than he wants to take a stand on principle and lose.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Literally everyone. The word “preach” literally just means to herald or proclaim or to publicly declare. For example, when Paul says in Romans 2:21 “While you preach against stealing, do you steal?” He’s not talking about church service. He’s talking about general proclamations about right and wrong.

Everybody preaches in their appropriate sphere. That’s a universal command.

The only limit to women “preaching” is the limit of their appropriate sphere (which is the same limit to their “teaching,” too), which we in our feminist age don’t dare to touch as a general matter.

To the extent we do touch it, we only touch it inside the church building, which is what causes the confusion we are currently in.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

It’s a combination of places like Acts 14:23, where “elders” or πρεσβύτερος (presbuteros) are appointed by Paul and Barnabus and 1 Timothy 3:2, where Paul describes ἐπισκοπή (episkopé). Both of these are separate from the other office of διάκονος (diakonos), which is where we get deacon/minister.

The two separate words of episkopé and presbuteros imply (but do not require) two separate offices, since they are separate words for authority in the church.

And if you are high-church, then episkopé is where you get “bishop,” and everybody under the bishop is a servant, even if they are an elder. If you are a deacon, you may or may not be an elder, but you do offer some official service to the church (that’s also where we get the word “minister” because they “administer” things in their service).

If you are low-church, elders and overseers are the same thing, without a higher level of authority.

I don’t have a strong opinion either way, but I will note that these ideas don’t come out of nowhere.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Minutia is not exempt. See Matthew 23:23-24:

[23] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. [24] You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

The point isn’t that you SHOULDN’T strain out gnats. You definitely should.

It’s just that you shouldn’t pat yourself on the back for straining out gnats (the smallest of all animals, which is also unclean) while swallowing camels (one of the largest unclean animals).

Same goes for interpreting scripture and obeying its commands.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

That means what it says.

Ephesians 4 is about the spiritual work of Jesus after he ascended. It’s not about “the church” as the visible institution alone.

God gives spiritual gifts in a wide variety of ways. The offices of the church (apostles, elders, and deacons) are just the first part of that list. The functional things (evangelist, shepherds, teachers) are neither limited to nor excluded from the offices themselves.

You get that from the meaning of the words themselves. As such, to a certain extent:
Everybody is an evangelist.
Everybody is a teacher.
Everybody is a shepherd.
Everybody does these things in their appropriate sphere.

For example, I’m a lawyer, and, as a Christian, I shepherd people in the law in a way that I have been authorized to do. That is my ministry (which is a fancy word for “service”). The spirit of Christ empowers me to do that well to “build up the body of Christ.”

The proper sphere of non-lawyers doesn’t allow them to advise on some legal things (“here is what this contract means”) but it does allow them to advise on other legal things (“give me the keys, bro. Drinking and driving is illegal.”)

It means what it says. Nothing more, nothing less.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

But “pastor” is not a biblical office. It is one of the many functions of the biblical office of elder/overseer.

Baptists have confused the issue because they have chosen the word “pastor” to be the name of the biblical office of “elder/overseer.” They also traditionally called their elders/overseers “deacons,” which is a Biblical name for a “servant,” an office and function that can obviously be filled by both men and women.

The problem is that the amendment to the Mohler amendment treats one small part of being [what Baptist call] a “pastor” - namely, preaching to the gathered assembly - as ALL that being all [what Baptist call] a “pastor” is.

It’s just confusion layered on more confusion, functionally resulting in feminist gains, as a result of needless Baptist ambiguity.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

This is wrong.

The Christian right’s mission is DEFINED by scripture. The “drift” is usually the result of having a good foundation (scripture) but not thinking about scripture clearly in complicated situations, which is solved by proper thinking, teaching, and explanation. That’s healthy, not dangerous.

The Christian left’s mission drift is caused by cultural factors (“science,” or feminism, or political egalitarianism, or historical criticism, etc.), not scripture. That means the foundations of thought are the problem. Debate and thought does no good when the precepts are wrong.

Veneers of authority only fool the liberal mind, because the veneer IS the authority in liberal thinking. Conservative minds can be fooled by veneers, but they abandon them when they perceive that they are veneers.

As such, thick veneers of authority fool only slightly less liberal minds.

[Sean DeMars @DemarsSean]

Mission drift goes left and right. Right is usually more dangerous because it's undergirded with more scripture and argued by the more orthodox, thereby giving it a thicker veneer of legitimacy.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

@jonharris1989 https://t.co/39njmjj57m

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

This is wild.
On the basis of this amendment that changes “such as” to “specifically” regarding women preaching to the gathered congregation, this means women in SBC churches can:

1. Preach (but not to the assembled congregation);
2. Preach to the non-assembled congregation (like in a webinar or video);
3. Be in an instructional teaching/preaching video that is played by a man to the assembled congregation, so long as she is not in the room;
4. Exercise authority over men in the context of marriage counseling;
5. Offer congregational prayers on behalf of the church body;
6. Exercise authority over men in the context of church discipline proceedings;
7. Baptize new converts in front of the assembled congregation;
8. Distribute communion to the assembled congregation;
9. Officiate over communion being distributed to the assembled congregation;
10. Teach scripture to men outside of the assembled congregation;

Whoop-de-doo. Bravo, you conservative champion. Way to stand up for “Truth” and “Unity.”

Might I remind everyone that there is nothing in the Bible that says women cannot “preach.” This might shock you, but the confusion arises because preaching is the most visible function of Baptist elders/overseers.

Instead, the BIBLICAL male-only requirement for the OFFICE OF ELDER/OVERSEER comes from Titus 1:5-9.

But this is not an office of “pastor” or an office of “preacher.” It is an office that INVOLVES AND REQUIRES pastoring and preaching. But that’s a distinction that Baptists need to recognize and understand (and incorporate into their documents).

Also, the prohibition on certain actions of women comes from 1 Timothy 2:8-15. Specifically, 1 Timothy 2:12:

[12] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

NOTE THE ABSENCE OF THE WORD “PREACH” OR “PASTOR.” That is because EVERYONE is required to preach and shepherd in their proper domain.

What Mohler seems to be avoiding is women’s “proper domain,” which is defined in 1 Timothy 2, and is not limited to the gathered assembly.

In order to preserve unity, Mohler has agreed to an amendment that will explicitly authorize what scripture prohibits and explicitly prohibits things that scripture is ambiguous about.

What a mess!!!

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

I think the main problem conservative Baptists have is that Baptists have literally zero definition or substance to that phrase “the function of pastor.”

All they have is a word: “pastor,” and an unspoken intuitive sense of what it means that only works among people who already agree with you on what it should mean.

But in light of Baptist independence regarding how Sundays are run, this doesn’t let you fairly enforce what “the function of pastor” actually is.

When you bring this up to conservative Baptists, they either go silent, claim that “pastor” is totally clear, or they just call you a liberal.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

But the distinction does exist.

A pastor is someone who leads, guides, and protects beings under his care. See Genesis 29:9.

Preaching is one way to do that. Teaching is another. Exhorting is another. Chastising is another. Disciplining is another. Prophesying is another. Etc. etc.

The church in question named all of their elders (which is the group with the legal control over the organization) as “pastors.” They named their female staff/volunteers “ministers” which comes from “deacon/servant.” (To add confusion, it is also what Methodists call their “pastors.”) For example, they have a “Children’s Minister.”

They also have female “Worship leaders,” but the English word “worship” is another word for “service,” (making a Worship Service either a Service Service or a Worship Worship). So, one would need to define the theological importance of leading the congregation in singing before making objections (which I haven’t heard).

As a consequence, if you want to make an argument about who can do certain ACTS which constitute BEING a pastor, you must first must clearly explain what a pastor actually is, so that you can say that one IS a pastor regardless of what he/she is called.

[Benjamin Brewster @Stonesand]

@scotus_wire If states can't sue other states via SCOTUS, what venue IS appropriate, then?

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

@IONTB Consumer choices.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

Fun Fact: The Fairfax County Circuit Court judge who made the underlying decision (Judge Bernhard) in the underlying matter was appointed to the Virginia Court of Appeals. That's the reason for the footnote in the CoA opinion that he wasn't part of those proceedings.

Based on my experience (which involved another one of his decisions being overturned by the Court of Appeals), I think there was internal Fairfax County Circuit Court pressure for him to quickly wrap up many of his big cases before he went to that CoA position.

Looks like he didn't do a good job under time pressure.

[J Caleb Jones @JCalebJones]

@paulogia0 That is why it is important to exclude scholars who are obviously idiots from your dataset.