If there is no God, then Hitler and Mother Teresa occupy the same place: they are both worm food. There is no final court, no judgment, no distinction that outlasts the grave. Hitler won.
On atheism there is no objective good or evil. There are only preferences, instincts, and social conventions that evolution and culture happened to produce. You can call something “wrong,” but you have no grounding that makes it actually wrong rather than merely inconvenient or unpopular. The universe does not care.
Everything you do is an accident of physics. Your love, your work, your sacrifices, your crimes—all of it is a brief arrangement of matter that the second law of thermodynamics will erase. Heat death comes. No memory remains. Meaning is something we invent to cope, not something that is there.
That is the logical implication of a closed, godless universe. The question is whether you are willing to live consistently with it.
Well said!
Christianity does not merely share an Abrahamic starting point. It claims that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has revealed Himself fully and finally in the person of Jesus of Nazareth—fully God and fully man, the second person of the Trinity. That is not a later Christian invention; it is the consistent witness of the earliest manuscripts and the apostolic preaching.
Judaism, after the first century, explicitly rejected that claim.
Islam goes further: the Qur’an denies the Trinity, denies the crucifixion, and denies that Jesus is the Son of God.
Those are not minor disagreements about “backwards teachings.” They are mutually exclusive identifications of who God is.
You sir are ignorant.
Christianity does not merely share an Abrahamic starting point. It claims that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has revealed Himself fully and finally in the person of Jesus of Nazareth—fully God and fully man, the second person of the Trinity. That is not a later Christian invention; it is the consistent witness of the earliest manuscripts and the apostolic preaching. Judaism, after the first century, explicitly rejected that claim. Islam goes further: the Qur’an denies the Trinity, denies the crucifixion, and denies that Jesus is the Son of God. Those are not minor disagreements about “backwards teachings.” They are mutually exclusive identifications of who God is.
They use some of the same names and stories. They do not confess the same God.
Science requires too much faith for me.
You look at a skyscraper and you don’t say, “Wow, what an incredible accident of wind and rust and random atoms bumping into each other for a few billion years.” You infer a designer. That’s not religious bias. That’s how the human mind works. We recognize specified complexity and we infer intelligence.
Now the godless thinker wants to flip that switch the moment we look at the universe itself. DNA is a language—four-letter chemical alphabet, specified information, error-correction, self-replication. The fine-tuning of the physical constants is so precise that if gravity or the strong nuclear force were off by a hair, you wouldn’t have stars, planets, or chemistry that can support life. And yet the claim is: “It just happened. Chance. Accident. Nothing plus time plus chance equals everything.”
That’s not science. That’s a faith statement. Science observes that something doesn’t come from nothing. EVER. Every effect we actually study has a cause. Energy doesn’t pop into existence uncaused. Information doesn’t write itself. Consciousness doesn’t emerge from raw matter by accident any more than a symphony writes itself by dropping a piano down the stairs.
If you walk into a room and see a watch on the table, you don’t say the parts assembled themselves through random collisions. You infer a watchmaker. The universe is infinitely more specified than a watch. To look at it and say “no mind required” is not humility. It’s a refusal to follow the same logic you use everywhere else.
The question is whether you’re willing to follow that evidence where it actually points—and then decide what you’re going to do with the One who claims to be that Intelligence.
@Therealcalle1@alexislunaa98@LiveAction By that logic we should murder people in comas.
If you have a heartbeat and brain activity doctors are required to treat you.
If you believe in science and the discipline of biology Life begins at conception. To deny that denies the mechanism of DNA and embryology.
@Aaliyah289000@alexislunaa98@LiveAction What would you call a sentient being that has a heartbeat, brain activity, can feel pain and hear its mother inside the womb?
God is the Author of life. Every child who has ever lived received that life from Him, and He has the right to take it. Genesis 9:6 is not God saying “I will never take life.” It is God saying human beings do not have the right to murder other image-bearers (defenseless babies). There is a massive difference between a creature shedding innocent blood and the Creator exercising judgment.
with the firstborn in Egypt Pharaoh had already ordered the slaughter of Hebrew baby boys. God sent plague after plague, warning after warning. Pharaoh hardened his heart. The tenth plague was the last resort, not the first. And even then, any family that put the blood of the lamb on the doorpost was spared—including Egyptians. Judgment and mercy sat side by side.
If there is no God, then “killing children” is just atoms rearranging. The very outrage you allegedly feel only makes sense if human life actually has sacred value—the exact value Genesis 9:6 is talking about.
The Atheist position = accidents and randomness are explanations.
You look at a skyscraper and you don’t say, “Wow, what an incredible accident of wind and rust and random atoms bumping into each other for a few billion years.” You infer a designer. That’s not religious bias.
Now the atheist or the “godless” thinker wants to flip that switch the moment we look at the universe itself. yet the claim is: “It just happened. Chance. Accident. Nothing plus time plus chance equals everything.”
That’s not science. That’s a faith statement. Science observes that something doesn’t come from nothing. Every effect we actually study has a cause. Energy doesn’t pop into existence uncaused. Information doesn’t write itself. Consciousness doesn’t emerge from raw matter by accident any more than a symphony writes itself by dropping a piano down the stairs.
FALSE.
The Shroud image sits only on the outermost ~200 nm of individual linen fibers—the primary cell wall. The fibers themselves are 10–20 µm across, and only the top one or two fiber layers in each thread are affected. The inner cellulose stays uncolored. That depth is thinner than the wavelength of visible light and far thinner than any paint, dye, or scorch layer an artist could apply.
STURP and later microscopy found no pigments, binders, brush strokes, capillary flow, or fiber clumping in the image areas. Contact methods (draping cloth over a statue or painted face) produce flattened, mask-like results without the Shroud’s 3-D encoding or this extreme superficiality. No known medieval or modern artistic technique has reproduced both the color confinement and the other image properties at once.
Laboratory work with 193 nm vacuum-ultraviolet laser pulses can create a similarly thin yellow discoloration, but only inside a very narrow window of pulse length and intensity (roughly 2–4 × 10⁹ W/cm²). Scaling that fluence across a human-sized surface requires on the order of 10¹³ watts of peak power—thousands of times more than any existing VUV source can deliver. The radiation would also have to be delivered in an extremely brief burst so it does not penetrate farther into the fibers. Those energy and timing constraints are why researchers treat a simple “light imprint” as physically demanding rather than a routine photographic or artistic process.
@Mirthosium@WesJB82@hookskat What is your evidence for 55-75CE?
It’s all in dispute. Nothing has been disproven.
The image cannot be reproduced by any known means today and especially 2000 years ago.
Christianity doesn’t hinge on this for any reason it’s just a potential artifact that validates it