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[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@Farid_0v @MNY_MGMT I understand, but he is saying it doesn't exist in an effective way 🙂. So it's just 2 rival claims

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@Farid_0v @MNY_MGMT What he is saying, is that the early narrators in chains can't really be verified easily because such analysis and scrutiny of figures did not exist in their time, which meant later criticism of such figured would not truly be possible in a meaningful or effective way

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@brethrenfpurity @muha_akhusiyya maybe you can bring some clarity to your view that is disputed here?

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@dmontetheno1 @InspiringPhilos There are differences among the voices in the NT. But there is more unity on various matters than some scholars would argue, like what little references here is just not quite there imho.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@brethrenfpurity Why would a text producing history of ancient events be interested in relaying and engaging Late antique traditions. Even if we say it's from God, it's stubborn not to see the evidence is against a claim of strict historical accuracy and recollections.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@brethrenfpurity Most Muslims have not seriously engaged the development of history to the late antique period of the Quran, and that is why they are able to be dismissive. The Quran is primarily a text dealing with late antiquity and it's various traditions. That alone should be an indicator.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@dmontetheno1 It's not really a double standard, Christians have for some time carefu distinguished and reckoned with the differences between historical critical readings and theological ones. You can add your theological nuance however you want, but don't mix that up with historical studies

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@ProfilStandard @sebastien_c123 It's not contrary to James 🤔. Paul never says "by faith alone"

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

Young girl here refers to a pre menarche girl. She's even too young as a pre menarche girl to bear sex. Probably a sexually immature gurl

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

she is an infant?__**” And in another narration he said: “She is *istibra’*ed by a menstruation if she reaches menstruation; **__otherwise, by three months if she is of those who can be approached sexually.__**”

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

It was chosen by Abū Muḥammad al-Maqdisī, our Shaykh (Ibn taymiyyah), and others.__**
> For he said (2): “If she is a small girl, by what should she be istibra’ (tested for purity) **__if

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@kthsnwoo 4. There is more to be mentioned concerning concubineage and consent, but you should know all of the above were and are normative legal doctrines for the majority of Muslim civilization prior to colonial influence....

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@kthsnwoo And legal factors that are at play in decisions like marriage and sex.

3. Men have unilateral rights to divorce, whereas women have to offer their dowry back to get a divorce, or they can keep it, if she can appeal to some special case like severe harm or mistreatment.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@adrift_mp3 As they hide any notable difference in agency and rights as accomadating gendered differences.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@adrift_mp3 I think you might have a point but it depends because Muslim women and their influences on their behavior vary. But I do think many notions of women and their rights and legal agency is rooted in a male centered system. But many Muslim women today, (often unknowingly) accept it

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@shpahrani Modesty and non modesty can both be pick me though. I think at the heart of this discussion is the concern that both "choices" are framed around male desire and both sides think they're somehow not doing that.. It's 2 sides of the same coin 👀

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@Leafywashere00 BUT, I am then unsure if the verse is giving command to something sexual. Because if it is, then I am more puzzled.

[a. a. a. a. a @Mythoughtsonrel]

@Leafywashere00 I have never studied this passage much. But it is quite Peculiar to me because I understand the word used there often refers to younger girls. But based on the passage i am led to believe it must include more than younger girls. It seems to encompass a wider group of people