āWhere did God Himself clearly and unambiguously say, 'Jesus is God; worship him '?ā
āIf your case is true, show the direct command from Godānot an interpretation that depends on first assuming Christianity is true.ā
Youāre moving from āDoes Scripture identify Jesus as God?ā to āDoes Scripture contain the exact sentence Jesus is the Almighty God '?ā Those arenāt the same question.
And Hebrews 1:8 isnāt merely Christians randomly applying Psalm 45 to Jesus. The author explicitly tells you who is speaking and to whom:
āBut unto THE SON he saith, Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever.ā ā Hebrews 1:8
Keep reading. Speaking of that same Son:
āThou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.ā ā Hebrews 1:10
Thatās quoting Psalm 102:25ā27, where the speaker is addressing YHWH, God, the Father. Hebrews applies it to the Son.
And God says:
āLet all the angels of God worship him.ā ā Hebrews 1:6
God the Father is instructing HIS angels to worship Jesus.
So the argument isnāt āJesus is God because I interpreted one ambiguous Psalm that way.ā Hebrews identifies the Son as God, applies a YHWH passage to Him, describes Him as Creator, and commands Godās angels to worship Himāall within the same chapter.
If your standard is that Scripture must contain the exact English sentence āJesus is the Almighty God,ā then youāre imposing wording Scripture never promises to use.
The relevant question is whether Scripture attributes to Jesus Godās identity, works, titles, honor, and worship. And it does.
It says that Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God - ALL of them- self-existent (uncreated), unchangeable, eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, and incomprehensible - along with the titles of God - titles belonging ONLY to God - the I AM, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.
āWhere did God Himself clearly and unambiguously say, 'Jesus is God; worship him '?ā
āIf your case is true, show the direct command from Godānot an interpretation that depends on first assuming Christianity is true.ā
Youāre moving from āDoes Scripture identify Jesus as God?ā to āDoes Scripture contain the exact sentence Jesus is the Almighty God '?ā Those arenāt the same question.
And Hebrews 1:8 isnāt merely Christians randomly applying Psalm 45 to Jesus. The author explicitly tells you who is speaking and to whom:
āBut unto THE SON he saith, Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever.ā ā Hebrews 1:8
Keep reading. Speaking of that same Son:
āThou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.ā ā Hebrews 1:10
Thatās quoting Psalm 102:25ā27, where the speaker is addressing YHWH, God, the Father. Hebrews applies it to the Son.
And God says:
āLet all the angels of God worship him.ā ā Hebrews 1:6
God the Father is instructing HIS angels to worship Jesus.
So the argument isnāt āJesus is God because I interpreted one ambiguous Psalm that way.ā Hebrews identifies the Son as God, applies a YHWH passage to Him, describes Him as Creator, and commands Godās angels to worship Himāall within the same chapter.
If your standard is that Scripture must contain the exact English sentence āJesus is the Almighty God,ā then youāre imposing wording Scripture never promises to use.
The relevant question is whether Scripture attributes to Jesus Godās identity, works, titles, honor, and worship. And it does.
It says that Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God - ALL of them- self-existent (uncreated), unchangeable, eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, and incomprehensible - along with the titles of God - titles belonging ONLY to God - the I AM, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.
You don't have to change to be loved by God, but
When you experience the Love of Jesus, you can't help but want to be changed and shaped into being more like him.
Since you believe this is true, what are YOU doing to help restore their confidence and convince them that, regardless of any perceived flaws, Trump and MAGA are still better than the best Democrat? THAT should be the goal. Get out and canvass for your local reps. Speak positively. Rationally. Rather than sniveling like a little bitch.
Scripture never claims that Israel as a whole would immediately accept Jesus. Their rejection is actually part of the biblical narrative.
āHe came unto his own, and his own received him not.ā ā John 1:11
āBlindness IN PART is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.ā ā Romans 11:25
Again, notice the words āin partā and āuntil.ā Thatās neither total nor permanent. Itās temporary. Until when? Until the last Gentile is saved. Only God knows what that number is.
And their rejection certainly doesnāt prove Jesus wasnāt Israelās Messiah. Isaiah had already described Him as ādespised and rejected of men.ā Psalm 118 speaks of āthe stone which the builders refusedā becoming the cornerstone (Jesus).
More importantly, Paul asks the exact question your argument raises:
āHave they stumbled that they should fall? GOD FORBID.ā ā Romans 11:11
Why did God allow their stumbling?
āThrough their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, FOR TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY.ā ā Romans 11:11
That makes no sense if God permanently finished with Israel. Why provoke Israel to jealousy if Israel no longer matters to His purposes?
Then, Paul predicts their future restoration:
āWhat shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?ā ā Romans 11:15
So yes, many Israelites rejected Jesus. The New Testament explicitly says they did. The disagreement is over what that rejection means. Paul emphatically says it does NOT mean God permanently rejected in Romans 11:1 and elsewhere.
Israelās rejection isnāt evidence against the New Testament account. Itās explicitly PART OF the New Testament account. The Jews are a literal, walking, talking, breathing example of how Godās mercy flows. No matter how badly we mess up. Will we face judgment? Punishment? Yes. But He promised never to fully forsake us. How can you not see that glaring example in the Jews? It's literally Godās redemptive plan lived out in real time.
Not even close. Again, take it up with Romans 11.
Paul NEVER says, āIsrael is now the Churchā nor does he call the Church āspiritual Israel.ā You cannot back up that claim using Scripture because it doesn't exist.
Paul literally says that God has NOT abandoned his people in Romans 11:1.
āHath God cast away his people? GOD FORBID. No! I, too, am an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin!ā
Did God cast away Paul, a Jew? Peter, James, Mary, David, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John - ALL Jews? Of course not!
He describes Israel as the NATURAL branches and Gentile believers as WILD branches GRAFTED IN among THEIR promises.
He even warns Gentile Christians - you! Us! Not to:
āBoast not against the natural branches.ā ā Romans 11:18
Again, and most devastating to your claim, Paul says of the very Israelites rejecting the gospel to this day, that they're loved and called because of the IRREVOCABLE promises He made to them in Romans 11:28ā32.
So how could Godās obligation to Israel have āceasedā when Paul, AFTER Christās resurrection, explicitly says they remain beloved because of the patriarchs and Godās calling is irrevocable - meaning CANNOT be revoked?
And Jerusalemās destruction proves judgment, not covenant cancellation. Israel had been judged, conquered and exiled beforeāincluding by Assyria and Babylonāyet God preserved His covenant promises.
The 144,000 donāt rescue the argument either. Revelation explicitly identifies them as āof all the tribes of the children of Israelā and then NAMES THE TRIBES?!?? Immediately afterward John sees a completely separate āgreat multitude⦠of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.ā
Judgment does not equal rejection.
Gentiles being grafted in does not equal Israel being replaced.
Again, Paulās could hardly be clearer:
āThey are Israelites, and to THEM belong the adoption, the glory, the COVENANTS, the giving of the LAW, the TEMPLE service, and the PROMISES.Ā (Romans 9:4)
Are YOU an Israelite? NO.
If you're a Christian, better get on your knees and thank God that the Jews rebelled against Him. Thatās the only reason salvation was then open to the Gentiles - to make the Jews jealous.
Romans 11:11
āI say then, Have they stumbled that they should FALL? GOD FORBID: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.ā
Have I ever seen a Jew follow Jesus? Christianity literally started with Jews, and thousands of Messianic Jews go to church every Sunday to this day. š
Jesus was Jewish. The Twelve were Jewish. Mary was Jewish. Peter, John, James, and Paul were Jewish. Thousands of Jews believed in Jesus in Jerusalem:
āThe number of the men was about five thousand.ā ā Acts 4:4
āThou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe.ā ā Acts 21:20
Did ALL Jews believe? Noāand neither did Jesus claim they would. Paul specifically says Israel experienced a PARTIAL and temporary hardening, NOT total rejection:
āBlindness IN PART is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.ā ā Romans 11:25
And as for Jesus being sent to Israel first, keep reading:
āGo ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS.ā ā Matthew 28:19
Israel FIRST was always the biblical orderānot Israel ONLY. Christianity didnāt begin when Gentiles decided to follow a Jewish JESUS. It began in Jerusalem among Jews and then spread to the nations, exactly as Jesus commanded.
@olakulehin78051@TheDemSlayer In the end, you'll be on your knees, bowing before the One True God, the God of Israel, King Jesus, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, King of the Jews, and ultimate ruler of the world from his Father Davidās throne in Israel. šš
And yet, they're still the apple of his eye and to whom He made an IRREVOCABLE and EVERLASTING covenant FOR YOUR SAKE. We all fall shortand need his mercy. Not one is good, no, not even one.
Paul, after the crucifixion and resurrection:
28Ā Regarding the gospel, they (Jews) are enemies FOR YOUR ADVANTAGE, but regarding election, they are LOVED because of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob), 29Ā since Godās gracious gifts and calling are IRREVOCABLE (cannot be revoked). 30Ā As you once disobeyed God but now have received MERCY through THEIR disobedience (you wouldn't have salvation w/o their rebellion), 31Ā so they too have now disobeyed, resulting in mercy to you, so that THEY (Jews) ALSO may now receive MERCY. 32Ā For God has imprisoned ALL in disobedience so that he may have mercy on ALL.Ā (Romans 11:28ā32)
CLAIM: The Catholic Church gave us the Holy Bible. You should be grateful!
TRUTH: No, the Catholic Church did not give us the Holy Bible. If anything, they kept it from the world. It was the Jews and the Protestants who gave us the Holy Bibleāand many of them voluntarily paid for it with their own blood.
First and foremost, God Almighty entrusted His Word to the Jews.
Godās people received it, recorded it, and faithfully copied it down on scrolls generation after generation. Many Jews willingly gave their lives and subjected themselves to horrific tortures and brutal death at the hands of both Greeks and Romansāall to ensure that the Word of God survived.
It was the Jews who canonized all 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis to Malachi), and they did it about 500 years before the Catholic Church even existed.
The Catholic Church had ZERO influence determining which books of the āOld Testamentā were Scripture. I repeat: ZERO.
That was 100% the Jews.
The only thing the Catholic Church determined was what books should be included in the New Testamentāthe same New Testament books that were also written by THE JEWS.
So, no, the Catholic Church actually did extraordinarily little when it came to providing the world with the Holy Bible.
In fact, the Catholic Church FORBADE the common man from even reading the Bibleādesiring to keep the people chained to the pulpit and enslaved to the false teachings and traditions of Catholicism.
1000+ years after the Catholic Church was established, we had the Protestant Reformation that started in 1517 with Martin Lutherās 95 Theses against the Catholic Church.
Unlike the Catholic Church that kept the Word of God from the people, the Great Protestant Reformers worked tirelessly to translate the Bible into English so the common man could read it and study it for themselvesāso that THE TRUTH of Godās Word could set them FREE from the authoritarian rule of the Catholic Church.
And like the Jews before them, many of the Reformers willingly gave their lives so that YOU could have the Holy Bible. The Catholic Church literally hunted these courageous men down, imprisoned them, tortured them, and murdered them.
The only reason we have the Bible today is because (1) the Jews wrote it and passed it down, and (2) the Protestant Reformers gave their lives to translate it and print it into English.
So, no. Iām not grateful to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is an enemy to God and an enemy to the truth of His Word that sets souls free.
Stress this point: I am NOT necessarily talking about Catholicsāthe people. God knows and I know that there are plenty of Catholics who are genuinely wonderful people, and I thank God for them.
Iām talking about the Catholic Church itselfāthe institution and the religion. Iām talking about that theological abomination that has the blood of untold numbers of faithful servants of God on their hands.
Thank God for the Jews and the Protestants! Without them, weād still be chained to the pulpit of the Catholic Church and left in spiritual darkness.
Youāve got half the covenant right and then drawn the exact conclusion Paul EXPLICITLY forbids.
Yes, the promised Seed is Christ, and through Abraham all nations are blessed. But that never meant God discarded Abrahamās physical descendants once Jesus came.
Paul asks that exact question AFTER Christās death and resurrection:
āHath God cast away his people? GOD FORBID!!!! No!!!! I, too, am an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.ā ā Romans 11:1
He then calls unbelieving Israel ābeloved for the fathersā sakesā and explains why:
āFor the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.ā ā Romans 11:28ā29
And God had already said of NATIONAL Israel (all of them):
āOnly if those ordinances depart from before me⦠(the sun, moon and stars) then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.ā ā Jeremiah 31:36
He literally bet the cosmos on the survival of Israel and their descendants FOREVER - the sun, moon, stars, and even roaring oceans. Read all of Jeremiah 31:35-36.
So yes, Jesus is the promised Seed and salvation extends to ALL nations. Amen. But Scripture doesnāt say, āJesus came, so Israelās election expired.ā In fact, it says the exact opposite.
And Abraham wasnāt chosen because he was already some exceptionally āgood man.ā God called Abram out of an idolatrous family and Abraham was counted righteous because he believed God.
You can laugh at āchosen peopleā if you want, but Paul - clearly writing after the cross - still called Israel āthe electionā and ābeloved for the fathersā sakes.ā Take that argument up with Romans 11.
@LooneyTunes2234@TheDemSlayer I honestly couldn't care less what the Catholic church posits. The body of Christ is the true church, believers, not the RCC. Are you Catholic? What are your trying to debate here? I'm not a Dispensationalist and Schofield is trash.
Youāre confusing the initial focus of Jesusā earthly ministry with the scope of the gospel after His resurrection.
Yes, Jesus said, āI am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israelā (Matt. 15:24). But the SAME Jesus later commanded:
āGo ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONSā (Matt. 28:19).
āGo ye into ALL THE WORLD, and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE.ā (Mark 16:15).
And before Paul was even a Christian, Jesus had already said:
āMany shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.ā (Matt. 8:11).
This wasnāt invented by Paul or Rome. Peter himself declared that God had commanded the gospel to go to the Gentiles (Acts 10:34ā48; 15:7ā11), and Jesusā Jewish apostles agreed (Acts 15).
Even the Old Testament foretold the Messiahās worldwide mission:
āI will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.ā (Isaiah 49:6).
So yesāJesus came to Israel first. āTo the Jew first, and also to the Greekā (Rom. 1:16). But āIsrael firstā does not mean āIsrael only.ā
And calling Jesus a āMuslimā simply assumes the Qurāanās theology 600 years after Jesus. The earliest Christian sources identify Jesus as Lord and divine decadesānot centuriesābefore any Roman emperor could supposedly āinventā His deity.