SteveJones

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@DanielJHannan If she is saying she’s not English because she has no English ancestry, we can debate that.

If she and/or others are saying if you’re not white you’re not English, that’s racism.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@Jimmyrinse1 @simonhancock_uk @Nicoledso Yep so that would be almost no one.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@honduras_B_ @WinterAndFinn @Band4Bantz @nonregemesse Fuck me…that isn’t a gene, you’re claiming no women are English, and only about 20% of English “men” would carry that.

Otherwise 10/10

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@Jimmyrinse1 @simonhancock_uk @Nicoledso What does “fully English” mean?! You’re basically arguing that no one today is English

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@j4ppleby Yes so ethnically English doesn’t need to mean you are white. It just means some part of your ancestry was white

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@Sargon_of_Akkad Good video but the first part is backwards, the tribe came before (arguably alongside but definitely not after) the ethnicity

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@AlbionMang @JimBriton You definitely can. Are we just denying facts now?

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@AlbionMang @JimBriton It’s not though is it. You can have English DNA and ancestry and not be white.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@_VanDeRante You’re talking about civic identities ie people being born here to non-English parents.

That’s different to English people having to be white. You can have English lineage and not be white.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@Fr12ee44Spewxh It’s not based on that, sorry. You’re mixing two things.

You need 35 qualifying years, that can come from working (paying NI), or credits (being on UC, sick leave, being a carer, jury service etc).

If you don’t reach 35 you can “buy” years to top up what you’re missing.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@technopopulist Fair. I think 90% of the current debate is people denying that English is used in both ways.

The problem (partly driven by Oli and others, partly driven by genuine blood purist racists) is this is spilling into “if you’re not white you’re not english” irrespective of ancestry.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges And it’s definitely not good to call them “non-English” which was used further up the thread

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges No one is 100% one single ethnicity.

If we start making judgment calls on who is English enough to be just refered to as “English” vs others we call “Partially English” I don’t think that’s good, no.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@doktorcocktail @mosthighzar @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges Once again…stating the reality of someone’s ancestry is not racism.

Using that reality to exclude people with English ancestry from being English because they have too much or the “wrong kind” of other ancestry is racism.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@doktorcocktail @mosthighzar @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges It’s about as bang on the nose as a definition of racism as it’s possible to be.

Think of perhaps the most famous racist in the last 100 years, and ask yourself what his views were on “purity” of a race and excluding people with mixed ancestry from his definition.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@doktorcocktail @mosthighzar @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges If someone isn’t English, it’s clearly not racist to say they’re not English. That’s not what I’m saying.

If someone has English lineage and you exclude them from your definition of English, while including others, that’s racism.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges I’m pretty confident you’re doing this in good faith. What you’ve said is fine.

But “I’m English” isn’t doing that. No one means “My DNA is 100% English”.

So people saying “I’m English, you’re non-English” to other people with English ancestry are racist.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges No, I said if you’re calling someone “non-English” in that case you’d be a racist.

You can refer to yourself as half-Irish, or however else you like. Your heritage is your own to explain to people how you want. That’s very different to me calling you “non-Irish”

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges Yeah I think we’ve crossed wires I’m not saying you can become indigenous just by moving somewhere.

[SteveJones @SJones87369]

@mosthighzar @doktorcocktail @SmellyFing52837 @peterrhague @DPJHodges Fair enough, and apologies I assumed you were English, my bad.

I too think it’s very normal for people to identify as a mixed heritage.

I think it’s much less normal for someone else to say that person is not one of the heritages they identify as based on their lineage.