@SpecNight5@unlucky_Gurl_ the side characters honestly do feel like they started with "what if (x) wonderland character was a fictionalised version of someone alice knew?" and then just went chapter by chapter ticking that box without really developing it all that much
@slickwickur but Bloodborne made it far more impactful+controllable, and was the first time afaik that staggering a boss allowed for ripostes, which is core to how those games use posture breaking as a core element of boss fights
@slickwickur I'm not discounting sinh from the group of bosses that influenced later bosses far more than Midir ever did.
Also, the reason I specified the posture mechanics as seen in sekiro/elden ring is because obviously staggering has been a hidden mechanic for a while,
@Invinium@slickwickur They're both setpieces bosses where you can't hurt them via regular combat mechanics. You're placed in a radial arena where you need to just avoid their attacks until you can hurt them with, in DeS's case a ballista, in sekiro's case trees that let you perform lightning reversal
@HawkboneFGC@slickwickur Thanks you're the third person to let me know. I don't think lady Maria or Midir are especially influential and there's probably a better pick than pontiff for what he supposedly influenced
@Invinium@slickwickur Rennala is mechanically very similar to fool's idol, divine dragon to dragon god. Armored warrior is definitely a puzzle boss but "puzzle is an oversimplification of DeS boss design. Tower knight should be here just for the sheer amount of bosses + regular enemies he influenced.
@slickwickur Arguably that limb-breaking system is the link between poise and the posture mechanics of sekiro and elden ring, which is just more justification to include one of those bosses
@slickwickur Midir didn't invent per-limb damage modifiers though, that's directly from bloodborne's boss design. All of these bosses, but especially Amygdala, take increased damage to their head. All Midir did was simplify their design, rather than attempt to balance limb-breaking.
@Invinium@slickwickur Not really. Rennala's first phase, Micolash, folding screen monkeys, divine dragon, and base game Radahn are just the first examples that come to mind. Flamelurker, penetrator and false king allant are all incredibly influential in a more conventional sense.
@slickwickur Lady Maria is easily replaced by the same metric, because I don't think her design is especially influential. Sekiro's boss design, however, was extremely influential for both elden ring and AC6, so atp include a sekiro rep
@slickwickur If that's your reasoning, why not Vicar Amelia, Cleric Beast, Paarl, Amygdala? All of whom predate Midir and use limb-specific damage in a far more robust way, who influenced later bosses, even non-dragon bosses like Astel?
@slickwickur But if you HAD to include a dragon I feel like elden ring has far more examples of well (I'd say much better) designed dragon fights. In fact, it's strange that there are no elden ring or demons souls bosses featured at all, especially with 2 reps from ds3
@slickwickur I feel like including a dragon out of obligation is silly, especially when 3/4 of the lineup are just humans and the souls games have a much more diverse cast of bosses than humans+dragons-