Family Doc. Lover of Jesus, truth, family, coffee, Nintendo, and philosophy. Hoping for a friendly chat with someone smart enough to show me where I'm wrong.
@kanyewest Jesus taught love, kindness and forgiveness.
I used to think that turning the other cheek was weak & foolish, but I was the fool for not appreciating its profound wisdom.
What do you think @ApoloJedi_ ?
Concede that the Bible is wrong or admit that it sometimes uses metaphors and expressions?
And to reply to Mr. meat, prophecy or special revelation works on trust in the same way that modern relationships do. When someone tells you something that you don't know and you find it to be reliable then the next time they tell you something you don't know, you are more likely to trust it.
Some good examples of biblical prophecies that could not have been known at the time of their writing but have since been verified would be Daniel predicting the next several empires with some striking details such as Alexander the great's empire dividing into four parts. Also Isaiah predicting many details of the crucifixion including Jesus burial in a tomb of a wealthy person (which even secular scholars do not dispute).
Here is a summary from Grok who is by the way not a Christian.
https://t.co/BXMSEe9Pez
You see evidence that the universe is usually consistent in its operation. You believe it.
I show you evidence from modern cosmology and physics of the universe not always being consistent in its operation in the past. You don't believe it.
Instead you conclude that future science will explain how it was always consistent.
You are familiar with physics and we are discussing that, but we see arguably even stronger evidence of non-uniformitarianism in the origin of the first life.
Consciousness and objective morality haven't been plausibly explained by the naturalist world view.
I'm just encouraging you and others to be open to the notion that science itself is saying that it won't be able to explain everything.
@Mat_Hunt@PRgirl94@ApoloJedi_@grok I'm demonstrating the double standard involved in your claims. You say "highly speculative" "absolutely no date" "not repeatable" and then make tweets like this saying that science cannot learn from other disciplines.
https://t.co/rcKwll69Ed
@ApoloJedi_ It's not a matter for a religious text to "teach" anything about the Earth, it's a matter for science. Whatever science involves, needs to be incorporated into religion.
I've heard attempts like this to use quantum theory to bypass the evidence for a beginning, but the theories are very speculative and lead to logical inconsistencies. The theory above put in normal terms I believe goes something like this.
You can't be certain about the energy state and time time of a measurement. So, if the energy state is definitely zero then quantum uncertainty can pull from the future mass and energy and create a universe from nothing.
But:
-not reproducible so not scientific
-no observer
-mass or energy borrowed from the future would then disappear in the future
-still requires the laws of physics to exist which is hard to see how thats possible.
Well, I would encourage you to be open to the hypothesis that there is such a thing as a mind and that you have one and that there may have been one which transcends the universe that brought it into existence with the unlikely set or properties that we find it.
Thanks for the conversation.
What happened to "the universe is consistent"?
Ok, so just so we are clear, in order to get around the evidence for a beginning of the universe you can postulate different laws of physics which have NEVER been observed for the early universe while saying that any form of creationism is wrong because the "the universe is consistent".
It is this kind of logical inconsistency that I find stems from scientism.
The truth is that science has been pointing for about a century through findings like red shift of the stars and thermodynamics and background radiation to a beginning. There there are lots of videos like this one of theoretical physicists talking about how to escape the evidence for a beginning of the universe. But it shows that the evidence is there.
https://t.co/d4vFawEiLq
@MarkRober doing his science curriculum along with @TheCrashCourse doing history and @prageru doing (my preferred) political science and @hankgreen teaching all the in-betweens, I think this youtube generation of kids has a chance if we can get them off of YT shorts.
@Mat_Hunt@PRgirl94@ApoloJedi_@grok Sometimes it states it in terms of enthalpy or Gibbs free energy, but reactions always proceed in a direction of increasing entropy/disorder for a closed system. So if you look at the universe as a whole and say it is a closed system, why are we not at maximum entropy?
Basically, if matter and energy are never created then they must have been here forever. But according to the second law of thermodynamics, if they had been here forever then they would be at Max entropy aka thermodynamic equilibrium aka heat death.
But the universe isn't.
Therefore the matter and energy must have come into being some finite time ago which goes against the first law of thermodynamics.
@Mat_Hunt@PRgirl94@ApoloJedi_@grok If by demonstrate you mean, point to evidence of it in history, then I already have. You can start with answering my entropy question.
If by demonstrate you mean reproduce, then you seem to misunderstand non-uniformitarian.
But remember our compromise. Methodological naturalism. This doesn't require naturalism to actually be true.
For an analogy, consider that the study of geological layers involves understanding both uniformitarianism (the way layers normally deposit) and also non-uniformitarianism like volcanoes or past mining.
Naturalism/Scientism fails to explain reality for the reasons I mentioned. However, ignoring science fails to explain reality for the reasons you mention. We need science without scientism
Ok. Mr. Classical Continuum Mechanics, if we look at discrete cause and effects and consider them like a continuous chain of contingent effects, do you think that the chain of all contingent effects needs a cause?
Seems like it would. But that requires an uncaused cause. Goes against Newton's first law of motion, therefore supernatural. Now while that does require some interpretation, it still holds true.
I do think that methodological naturalism is a good compromise. Presume naturalism for the purpose of the experiment.
But then ego comes in and scientists start believing the "assumption".
I advocate for methodological naturalism and philosophical open-mindedness.
I find theism persuasive, and while I don't think you can "prove" theism true, I do think you can prove naturalism false.
@Mat_Hunt@PRgirl94@ApoloJedi_@grok Yeah. I think that is where science should shrug and ask philosophy. But many scientists like to think of their discipline as being above all and not dependent on anything else, when it can't even explain consciousness, morality, the origins of the universe, etc.
I find that the existence of less than max entropy (ex. sun is still burning) Isn't consistent with all 3 of these.
-the universe is a closed system
-first law of thermodynamics
-second law of thermodynamics
So, I conclude that the universe isn't a closed system.
If you think the universe is a closed system (nothing super-natural), how do you explain why we aren't at max entropy?
If you think the universe isn't a closed system then why assume that EVERYTHING has ALWAYS followed the same rules it does now?
@Aherb_IRL@JeremyDBoreing Considering the wisdom vacuum left by the reduced activity of JP and Denis Prager as well as the passing of Charlie, I have found Jeremy's insights to be a breath of fresh air and his straightforward honesty to be remarkable. Abe Lincoln levels of wisdom and candor.
Before we get into today’s festivities let’s take a moment of silence for all those we’ve lost. Let’s honor those who fought for us and our country today and everyday. Happy #MemorialDay everyone, God bless.