I want to compile a list (and maybe write a brief book) about all the crazy stories, conspiracies, myths, pseudo-doctrines, and just weird things you've ever heard/learned/believed about the Church. Or things you're not sure if they're true or not. Stuff that's kinda out there...
@_pipdid@TomStringham@melonakos@JesseLucasSaga The artwork is on the INSIDE. You're defacing the outer walls of your temple with worldly art that is not commissioned by the Lord. Your heart is where you should have the beauty, not the skin. They do not compare.
If Joseph Smith was deceiving people, how do you explain the testimony of Oliver Cowdery?
If anyone was in position to expose Joseph Smith, it was Oliver.
Oliver was a young man trying to make his way in the world as a schoolteacher. When he heard about Joseph Smith and the gold plates, he felt impressed to assist in the work.
He went to Harmony, Pennsylvania, and became the primary scribe of the Book of Mormon. He wrote: “These were days never to be forgotten… I continued to write from his mouth, as he translated… the record called the Book of Mormon.”
He testified he saw angels. He was there when John the Baptist conferred the Aaronic Priesthood. He testified of receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood from heavenly messengers. He was one of the Three Witnesses, called to testify the authenticity of the Book of Mormon to all the world.
He sacrificed. He served. He faced persecution. He spent long periods away from his wife to do the work.
Then everything fell apart.
Oliver clashed with Joseph and Church leadership. He wrote strongly worded letters, saying the Church was overreaching and trying to control his personal affairs. He pushed back hard, refused to submit, and experienced major frustration and resentment.
In April 1838, formal charges were brought against him:
– For persecuting the brethren with vexatious lawsuits
– For seeking to destroy Joseph Smith’s character
– For treating the Church with contempt and not attending meetings
– For declaring he would not be governed by Church authority or revelation in temporal matters
– For selling land in Jackson County contrary to church policy
– For writing an insulting letter to Thomas B. Marsh
– For leaving his calling for “filthy lucre” and practicing law
– For being connected with the “bogus” business
– For dishonestly retaining notes after they were paid
Oliver disputed these charges, rejected the authority of the council to judge him and walked away.
If The Restoration was a fraud, this was the moment to expose it.
Oliver Cowdery had written the translation. He claimed to have seen the angel. He knew everything.
Instead, he never denied his testimony.
Even outside the Church, it cost him. He admitted his association with Joseph Smith limited his opportunities, saying without it, “I believe I could rise to the heights of my ambition.”
He still built a life. He became a successful lawyer. He was respected and established.
If it wasn’t true, there was no reason to ever come back.
But He Did.
On October 21, 1848, standing before 2,000 Saints, he testified:
“I wrote with my own pen the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and he translated it by the power and gift of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by that book, “Holy Interpreter.”
I beheld with my eyes and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands, the “Holy Interpreters.” That book is true, Sidney Rigdon did not write it; Mr. Spaulding did not write it; I wrote it myself as it fell from the lips of the Prophet. It contains the everlasting Gospel, to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of Salvation, and if you my hearers, will walk by its light, and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the Kingdom of God.
I was present with Joseph when an Holy Angel from Heaven came down and conferred upon us, or restored the Aaronic Priesthood, and said to us, at the same time, that it should remain on earth while the earth stands. I was also present with Joseph when the Higher or Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred by the Holy Angels from on high. This priesthood was then conferred on each other by the will and commandment of God. This priesthood, as was then declared, was also to remain upon the earth until the last remnant of time.”
He came back without asking for position. Just to be received, because he knew the work was true. He knew the Book of Mormon was translated by the Gift and Power of God.
Less than a year later, he died at the age of 43.
Those present said he died “the happiest man” they had ever seen, confident he was going to his Savior.
@synthenergy@LatentMajesty@ThoughtfulSaint@BruceSaiFun I'm guessing you're not much of an expert on apostasy.
Remember Moses, the mouth piece of YHWH, who tried to bring the people the Holy Law?
Only for him to see them engaging in familiar pagan practices so he broke them and had to return with a lesser law they could handle?
@DonnyCakes12@joshnaa2gez According to various accounts, Joseph was inspired to know which women to ask, then he told them to seek their own witnesses of the divinity of the proposal. Some women had that confirmed to them before the prophet ever asked.
@BradWitbeck It's part of a psychological phenomenon where they turn you into an obstacle to them feeling in control, so they do what they can to "eliminate you*.
The “Mormons aren’t Christians” movement is nothing more than a small but loud corner of American evangelicalism.
That argument has now lost.
Not faded. Not weakened. Lost.
It no longer persuades the public, and it no longer commands moral authority.
What remains is noise, produced for self-confirmation rather than persuasion, repeating claims the rest of the country has already moved past.
The reason is simple. Americans know what Christians look like. And they know Latter-day Saints.
They know Latter-day Saints as people who worship Jesus Christ openly and constantly. Who pray in His name. Who center weekly worship on His atoning sacrifice. Who teach their children to follow Him. Who organize their entire religious life around His resurrection.
For almost everyone who is asked, that settles the question.
Repeated surveys confirm it. A clear majority of Americans regard Latter-day Saints as Christian, including many who disagree with their theology or would never join the Church. They still recognize Christian faith when they see it.
The real fight is not over Jesus Christ. Latter-day Saints affirm His divinity, His Atonement, and His literal resurrection without hesitation. That is not where the argument lives.
The disagreement turns on something else. When evangelicals say Latter-day Saints aren’t Christian, they are often defending a philosophical definition of God shaped by Greek thought. When Latter-day Saints say they are Christian, they are pointing to something simpler and older: worship of Jesus Christ as the resurrected Savior.
You can disagree with that claim. But you cannot honestly say it places Latter-day Saints outside the Christian story altogether.
Teachings evangelicals portray as wildly unchristian, including belief in an embodied Father or distinct divine persons, were taught and believed by many early Christians. Scholars have shown these ideas were common in the first centuries, before later church authorities narrowed acceptable belief through frameworks shaped heavily by Greek philosophy. They are not historical oddities. They are part of Christianity’s early record.
That is why the heresy label now rings hollow. It is not grounded in how Christianity began, but in how certain groups later decided its boundaries should be enforced.
And enforcement is exactly how it feels.
The most telling feature of today’s “Mormons aren’t Christian��� rhetoric is its irrelevance. It persists in online echo chambers and almost nowhere else.
Outside those circles, the verdict is already in. Latter-day Saints are widely recognized as Christians. Their faith is visible, durable, and centered on Jesus Christ. The attempt to deny that reality no longer persuades anyone who is not already committed to denying it.
America has spoken. Ancient history is on its side. And momentum points the same way.
Latter-day Saints are Christian.
@JLindseyWriter@BookMormon2day Moroni and Joseph Smith and hundreds of others died to bring about the Book of Mormon. Those verses literally validate its existence.
@BowieTheus@BookMormon2day You literally just proved that statement necessary, though. You "read" and came to your own conclusion... and refused to seek the Lord's revelation. That says way more about you than us.
@anymanfitness To be fair, this show is TV-14 at best and TV-MA at worst. That's the equivalent of PG-13 to R-rated.
Just because the main characters are kids doesn't mean the content is made for kids. Middle schoolers really shouldn't be watching it.