But the canon wasn’t made authoritative by a council. The council formally recognized writings that already carried apostolic authority.
So if councils function the same way doctrinally, then their role is recognitional, not self-authenticating. They identify what already belongs to the apostolic faith.
Which brings us back to the question: how do we test whether their recognition was correct?
And I’m not trying to disprove ecclesial authority. I’m simply showing how the claims made by institutional authority can’t settle who has over final authority to settle disputes.
Because the church was always meant to spread, but was authority always meant to centralize?
Catholics and Orthodox both say yes, yet they disagree around who. So then how do we determine who’s right and who wrong? By what measure do we determine who’s had faithfully preserved the authority?
If a visible Church has authority to settle doctrinal disputes, what authority settles disputes between visible Churches?
Catholics and Orthodox both claim apostolic succession.
Both claim to be the visible Church.
Both disagree on major questions of authority.
So ultimately the issue will fall back to the source, regardless of the claims each authority makes.
@DividonBX@AL_J82 The bread of the communion meal is different than normal bread, but that doesn’t require a change of substance. The same Holy Spirit who you believe changes the substance is capable of changing the health of those you eat it in an unworthy manner.
@Oluwadaniel_0 The argument that is asserted here without evidence is that one divine being HAS to be one divine person.
But if “god” and “person” are synonymous in this way, then why do we have distinct categories for them? Why can’t the single God be more than one person?
Does authority originate in the office holder, or does it originate in Christ?
If authority originates in Christ, then why would differing beliefs about how that authority is recognized or exercised necessarily create a hard divide between Christians who otherwise agree on the gospel?
A reality that many Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox fail to recognize is that any institution can drift from its purpose when preserving itself becomes more important than serving Christ.
It’s true of the papacy. It’s true of Calvinism. It’s true of Constantinople. Human beings are tribal by nature, but Christ calls us into communion with Him and one another.
So whichever tradition we find ourselves adhering to, we certainly share more in common through Christ. And when we remember that, the walls we build around ourselves begin to matter less. We remember that we are not called to be bouncers, but gracious hosts extending an invitation.
Did God not establish the jewish law and traditions? Did not then the jewish leadership viewed Jesus’ actions as schismatic and heresy? They called him a blasphemer even though he was actually fulfilling the purpose of the law in the first place.
Flash forward to the Luther whose goal was to reform the church and the parallels are striking. The religious leadership viewed Luther as schematic and a heretic. Yet, many who suffered under the abuses he opposed saw his reform as necessary and biblical.
True reform draws a line in the sand and causes division. Jesus said so himself in Matthew 10.
@LizzieMarbach The issue is that this is contradictory just in a logical sense. If Jesus descended from her flesh, then logicallly she gave him his humanity. Otherwise, you’d have to adopt a gnostic view where Jesus simply passed through with a “celestial” body.
@valorthodoxia Is there a verse I don’t know about that says the goal of evangelism is to corner people into the correct belief? It is that just something you decided to do on your own?