@ChrisMartzWX I think it was Dennis Prager that said that studies by experts tend to confirm what the average person has already discerned with common sense.
@turnedwife This is just a total devaluation of life: in the womb, but also the lack of imagination regarding the blessing that comes from knowing a person with Down syndrome.
I think we need to come back to a public discussion of what virtue is, especially in terms of being willing to do the hard thing when it doesn't feel immediately "beneficial."
For anyone who knows anyone with Down Syndrome, this is especially heartbreaking. The individuals I know are some of the kindest, most sincere people I've ever met. I've learned to not take life quite as seriously by virtue of my relationship with them. Not only was this taking the easy way out, but they passed on the opportunity for being blessed in ways they cannot right now imagine.
That's a good question. I think it's probably just the opposite of whatever "attending to the joyful union with others" is, where both people are looking to maximize the good of the other in the moment. Namely, how do we maximize the good of both people, versus me only thinking about myself? As we develop in this virtue, I suspect that it lessens the "need" for my own good to be maximized in that equation (because we take joy simply in the good of the other), and leads to things like altruistic self-sacrifice.
I remember a key moment in this game vividly, one of my favorite gaming memories.
It received great reviews so I picked it up. First act was fun, very funny and clever. What you'd expect from Lucas Arts. Then the game transitioned to Act 2, and it became ... magical. It's hard to explain unless you play the game, but that transition takes you to such an unbelievably cool and memorable place in a blink of an eye.
This will always be one of my favorite games of all time.
@darwintojesus Determining the ontological status of a human based on what kills it. That's a new one.
Perhaps we should argue that our moral handling of human persons is in no small part determined by what keeps them safe and what causes them harm.
@Pavelnadolski@wendelltalks That's a boring and overly reductive framing of reality and most people's experiences of altruistic love. It minimizes all of our best examples of it to actual nonsense. I'd encourage you to consider that there might be something more to it.
I would distinguish between selfishness and self-interest. Christianity definitely has self-interest built into it, all over the place, and without apology. As CS Lewis put it:
"If there lurks in most modern minds the notion that to desire our own good and earnestly to hope for the enjoyment of it is a bad thing, I suggest that this notion has crept in from Kant and the Stoics and is no part of the Christian faith. Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that our Lord finds our desires, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us."
Selfishness seeks the good of self at the expense of others. Healthy self-interest — joyful union with God and others — can be distinguished sharply from selfishness, as the good of both play out. I can want and pursue this deeply without being selfish.
As I think about this, can an atheist perform altruistic acts to the point of death? Yes, probably, if they are pursuing the good of self and others. Is it justified meaningfully, or can it be performed best apart from the Christian God? I'm not sure about that. I think justifying or finding a reason for that kind of behavior apart from God existing often reduces to evolutionary explanations for survival, which empties it of the innately wonderful nature that sacrificial love is.
@WallStreetApes@elonmusk Even if it means something, it's impossible now to rationally categorize the severity of its offense on the hierarchy of possible offenses.
@Eric_In_Osaka@wendelltalks That's the point I was trying to make. It takes something beautiful and innately valuable and reduces it to a survival mechanism (or hidden selfishness, or a mental illness). I think we know that altruistic love, especially to the point of death, is much more than all of this.
You’d think more men would understand this, actually. It’s a pretty masculine trait to go at it for a few rounds and then go get a beer afterwards. I wish intellectual sparring was like this, even over existentially important issues.
Gary Habermas and Antony Flew modeled this, actually. They would debate the existence of God in public, and were good friends in real life.
Going from staunch atheist and evolutionist to convinced Christian was a gradual but powerful process.
I spent years showing family members the “evidence” that evolution is true and religion is a lie created to control people and to cope with suffering and death. I mocked Christians to their faces. I read Dawkins until I knew him by heart. I thought Neil DeGrasse Tyson was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I was disgusted by Christianity and all religions for stifling people’s intellects from finding truth through science. Almost all my friends were atheist—these were my people. I had a good job, a long-term girlfriend, life was good.
Then out of nowhere, I vividly remember sitting in my apartment after work, perceiving God gently tugging on my heart and mind, like a splinter in my mind I could not escape. I could see him in my mind’s eye, and I innately knew this being was the God of the Bible. Yes, it was preposterous. At first I thought I must be hallucinating, just as I always claimed theists do. So I let it pass and tried to forget it.
This happened every day for months, growing more powerful and vivid each day. It was undeniable. I became terrified because I had been sure atheism and naturalism was the true way, I had mocked the religious for years, and suddenly I was experiencing something I could neither stop nor explain. This being wants me—he is literally stalking me—for some reason I don’t understand but he is *very* sure of. The drawing became so strong, real, and tactile that I knew I had to buy a Bible to investigate. I had the awareness to think: if supernatural experiences do actually exist, this is certainly one. And therefore I had a duty to approach it with honest inquiry and without preconceived biases.
I made a “deal” with God: “If Jesus truly is who he claimed to be, reveal this to me through the scriptures.” In my atheism I knew the entire Bible hinged upon Jesus, so it all came down to the gospels. I would approach it humbly and honestly, and if I finished the gospels unconvinced, I could move on.
By the time I finished I found myself completely convinced—not only through logic and reason, but through a ring of truth that struck down to my soul. I was surprised by joy. And the more I study the Bible, the more it validates itself and the more God has done a work in my heart and life. And the “mysterious drawer” has become someone I actually know.
Everyone’s journey is unique. I don’t say this to convince anyone. I know many unbelievers will see it as foolishness, just as I once did. But as a former atheist, I’d be remiss not to say how incredible it is that God actually exists and that you can have a direct connection with your Creator. If anyone perceives any inkling of a call, investigate it with a neutral slate, humbly and honestly, and see where it leads.
@RealSKeshel@xbradtc It’s like the ejection version of their high speed train project. Every other country can get it done, but failure to deliver is normalized, and you know something shady is going on as a result.