BigBaller

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@stackerco @Salt_n_Smoke So are you saying that when Jesus ordained and set apart his apostles, he was not giving them specific authority to do so?

If not, then why did he ordain them? What is the purpose of that?

[BigBaller @benlil32]

I never worry about these debates. Because my religion teaches me that virtually everyone is learning, progressing and will have every opportunity in this life and the next to reach their potential.

All good Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews , and agnostics who are living good lives will have every opportunity to progress. It’s a liberating doctrine.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

Exactly right. I’ll give one example.

The three witnesses and eight witnesses testified to their dying death that they had seen what they testified to have seen regarding the Book of Mormon.

But there are many who do not believe what they saw really happened and claimed they were deceived or they were hallucinating or something along those lines.

I would much rather actually believe their testimonies and all the great things that Joseph Smith taught. It is much better than to choose to believe in the alternative.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@stackerco I think the toughest part is finding the power/motivation/vision to actually do it.
The ego is very strong.

I think this is where the story and belief in Christ comes in; to provide that power.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

Hey Nancy.

The church was established through D&C 1 through the weak and the simple. It is clear from this that prophets will sin, make errors, lack wisdom, and will receive wisdom from time to time.
I hope this helps.

23 That the fulness of my gospelmight be proclaimed by the weakand the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers⁠.
24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language⁠, that they might come to understanding⁠.
25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;
26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed⁠;
27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened⁠, that they might repent⁠;
28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@scrojohnson @Hazza1875 @stackerco @jonathanplumb Moses was kept out of the promised land because of a mistake. Why did God not stop him right before he did it?
David committed murder. Was he not the chosen of the Lord before de did that ?

[BigBaller @benlil32]

I am sure some do this more than others.

But what you are saying is similar to members saying those who leave the church just want to sin, or are lazy or don’t have faith or are apostates etc.

I think you would have more credibility if you said I don’t find apologetics views compelling.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

That wasn’t my question.

You and I may interpret facts differently. But I would never claim you are a liar. I would say you came to a different conclusion of the facts.

You said you realized apologetics were lying to you and you were disgusted. Based on what ? Your interpretation of the facts?

I’m always amazed at anyone who makes broad brush claims like this. I’m not this confident about virtually anything in my life. And LDS believers do the same thing on their side.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

So you believe if someone is a historian but still believes that makes them an apologist and no longer credible ?

Is that right? I’m genuinely curious how you look at this. Because saying someone is lying is much stronger accusations than saying someone is wrong or biased or misguided.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@scrojohnson @stackerco @Hazza1875 @jonathanplumb I agree. But this notion that God just comes down and speaks directly in their ear and tells prophets exactly what to do every time has never been evident in any scriptures I have read.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@stackerco @Hazza1875 @jonathanplumb Paul said: For now we see through a glass darkly… now I know in part; but then shall I know even as I am also known.

What do you think he meant ? Sounds like to me he did not have a full understanding. Neither did Peter or any other prophet.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@stackerco @Hazza1875 @jonathanplumb If you don’t believe prophets are fallible, then you don’t believe the Bible or really any scriptures.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

This is why you in my opinion will end up being agnostic. Because all religions have hard evidence shortcomings.

That being said, I believe in a God that will reward being a good moral person.
But there is a difference between being a good person and one like Jesus.

I think really trying to be like Jesus and striving to do what he did takes real effort and strain. Which most people cannot do without an inner faith and belief that gives them power to do it.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@jspujji GA

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@stackerco Eternal progression is probably my favorite doctrine of the church. It makes sense to me. In contrast, singing praises to God for eternity makes no sense.

I think the church should teach it even more than it does. It should never run away from it in my opinion.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@Manhattva @stackerco My personal thoughts are that it is harder for people with depression and anxiety to feel the Spirit or have optimism in general. And I speak from experience having had times of situational depression.

[BigBaller @benlil32]

@synthenergy @stackerco The LDS church teaches you can repent in the next life and that all will inherit glory.

Other churches say you will burn in hell forever if you reject Christ.

So which consequence would you rather have for “trillions of years?”

[BigBaller @benlil32]

Have you ever considered that Joseph Smith suffered through an enormous amount of PTSD and anxiety later in life ?

He had five children die, spent 6 months in a brutal jail, was tarred and feathered etc.

I once lost my job and almost had a nervous breakdown.

I think it is very easy to judge people without knowing what they went through.

I honestly don’t know if polygamy was inspired or maybe partially inspired. Or maybe it was a mistake like Stephen Markham claimed Joseph Smith told him.

I have no idea but I’m willing to withhold judgement on Joseph Smith and commend him for the incredible things he did teach.