@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Running out of arguments so just going personal I see
The smart way is back-end verification: letting state DBs cross-check DMV & SS records behind the scenes. Secure the vote by making agencies talk to each other & enforce laws, not by blocking legal citizens in physical papers
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Read the text of Sec 2 of SAVE Act. A REAL ID is rejected unless it lists citizenship (which 45 states don't do). It treats regular Real IDs as insufficient
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@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Back to your original “silly” statement that we think ‘fraud is good’.
People are simplypointing out that while fraud is bad, overly-restrictive laws does more harm than good
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Under proposed “fixes” a standard valid ID, REAL ID, or military ID alone fails the requirements. It’s a passport or a physical birth certificate and name matching for married women. For guns: it’s only a standard photo ID. They are treating voting rights harsher than gun rights
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer I already said fraud is bad. You’re inventing a fake argument.
laws that lock out US citizens isn't security. Instead update DMV DBs, strictly enforce laws we already have against noncitizens and harvesting. Don't do it by punishing real citizens who don't have a passport handy
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer You’re not based in reality. You claim a silly lie that we think 'fraud is good'-when called out, you claim issues like disenfranchisement don't exist. When shown data, you pivot to calling millions of legal, workingclass Americans 'lazy' for not paying hidden fees for 'free' IDs
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Fraud is bad and should be punished. But if you claim there is 'no disenfranchisement' when data shows ~12% of US citizens lack the exact ID documents on hand, you’re choosing to ignore them. Why is blocking millions of legal American voters an acceptable tradeoff for you?
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@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Let’s do a numbers game. First up, we all want zero fraud-I see that’s a tough one for you. Now take the amount of fraud we currently have vs the disenfranchised voters fro so called fixes. Saying it’s not worth losing their ability to vote is not the same as endorsing fraud
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer You may want to look up strawman and then read your examples. Saying that folks who want to empower voters believe that it is a good thing when people do something illegal is exactly that. We all want secure elections, just doesn’t make sense to shut more good peopke than bad
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Again, back to strawman arguments. Claiming people are FOR illegal voting is not correct.
We all agree illegal voting is bad. It’s heavily prosecuted and exceedingly rare. Those examples are illegal - but restricting access only hurts legal voters (which is worse in a democracy)
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@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Equating voter access with being pro-fraud is a bad-faith strawman. Everyone wants zero fraud
You are intentionally misrepresenting a concern over voter barriers as an endorsement of fraud
Caring about ballot access and democracy for legal voters doesn't mean you want cheating
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@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Or that the fixes ALSO make voting more difficult. Maybe let’s come up with better fixes. Also I still haven’t seen anyone saying that voting fraud is “a good thing”. Maybe you should try baking that up since you led with it?
@rustbeltmaga@Angry_Staffer Who is actually saying that it’s a good thing? I have never heard that said ever. Everyone (right and left) says it’s a bad thing. We all want 0.
The point is that one side is saying it’s “massive”. Can you share how that tiny number of POTENTIAL cases could be consequential?