Bay Area resident, Georgia Tech alum, interested in technology, finance, politics and sports (not necessarily in that order). Trying to make sense of world.
@The_AI_Investor Having used both (work in deeply technical field) I feel when ai want to study something technical or generate technical documents I feel Claude does better job. Otherwise the freedom of using Codex is very liberating
@sama ChatGPT 5.5 on Codex is so cool but when I talk to the "other model" and try to learn a technical topic I find it generates better explanations/equations (LATEX)/figures. I hope ChatGPT can catch up to this so that I can stop switching between models.
In this new world of pervasive content, Indians are now exposed to Bangladeshi and Pakistani cricket coverage, both user-generated as well as from TV channels, and this gives many an insight into how our cricket, and by extension how we, are seen across the borders, on both sides of it. For those of you who know me, you would be aware of my love of "so bad it's good" content, and as Kanti Shah and Bashir Babbar said goodbye to the mass-scale production of Bolly-garbage, I had to get my jollies elsewhere.
That's when I discovered Bangladeshi cricket message boards around the time Bangladesh beat us in the 2007 World Cup (an occasion that literally defined a generation), and I have been addicted ever since.
To the casual Indian observer, Bangladeshi fans definitely come across as the more shrill. There are multiple videos of Bangladeshi fans shouting into the camera that they feel a bestial sense of joy (their actual words) at watching India lose (when India loses, which is rare), or accusing India of being jealous of Bangladesh as an economic powerhouse which is why India is responsible for their defeat (this they say when they lose, which is very not rare).
Now, given that no one, outside Bangladesh, takes Bangladesh as a cricket power seriously, or its economic might (in the BPL, foreign players have refused to take the field because franchise owners had not paid them, the team bus driver locked up the kit of players unless his invoice cleared, and prizes for Man of the Match are items like "pressure cooker"), much of Bangladesh's posturing comes across as self-parody, sometimes even endearing.
One also understands some of their angst: they believe, and it is right to feel that way, that India does not treat them seriously (and one may also argue they haven't done much cricket-wise to be taken seriously), and some of the nasty disparaging remarks made by Indian cricket influencers like Sidhu and Sehwag were avoidable and did them no credit, and while most nations would brush them off, Bangladesh is an emotional country with a strong sense of being nationally offended, as they demonstrated by making Gunday (not to be confused with Gunda) the worst movie on IMDb at one time, by nationally downvoting it because it had the impudence to suggest that India gave Bangladesh independence.
Pakistan, in contrast, comes off as different. I see so many social media posts, and not just from those Indians who wish we were more like Pakistan, in that our politicians looked like Imran Khan and jagratas are uncle-worthy divisive and religious but all-night qawwali is rad and secular, but from people deemed to be "nationalistic" who believe that Pakistani cricket fandom is more gracious, more accepting, more rational than Bangladesh's.
Pakistani cricket greats, according to this view, fully accept that India is a better team now. They don't make excuses. Instead they eschew chest-thumping jingoism for hard-nosed self-introspection.
As someone who has also followed Pakistani cricket analysis, from Har Lamha Purjosh to Hasna Mana Hai, which are half comedy and half cricket shows, to the more serious analysis shows moderated by a gentleman by the name of Fakhr-e-Alam (yes, that's his name), this "shows sportsman spirit" is objectively not true.
A large amount of Pakistani analysis, of the popular type, is "India owns the ICC," "India fixed the match," "Bumrah chucks," "they do kala jadoo," and a recurring bit with a guy "having tea". While one can dismiss these as cheap clickbait and cringe TV (and Indians cannot claim higher ground on the quality of sports analysis programs), the part where Pakistani ex-cricketers accept that India is a better team comes with a dark subtext.
Let's break down their narrative.
Pakistani greats always have these stories of how when they were cricketers, Indians were weak, and not just weak, cowards. They throw around names like Dravid and Sachin and Ganguly as shaking in their boots from Akhtar's pace, or of being unable to read Saqlain, and each of them has their stories, of how the legends used to mock Indians, from Miandad to Zaheer Abbas to Imran (usually told second-hand). Then there are first-hand anecdotes from Shoaib and Basit Ali and Afridi and some-guy-who-played-three-Tests, of how Indians used to fold at the slightest sign of Pakistani aggression, and how they would collectively laugh at Indians, for not only their lack of cricketing prowess but also their cowardice in front of genuine pace or spin. They would bring up matches in Sharjah, where India might have had them on the mat, but then someone or the other from the Pakistani team would come and decimate them, be it Manzoor Elahi or Salim Malik or Javed Miandad or Aaqib Javed or Zahid Fazal, because Indians fold under pressure from those that were superior, and this was a truth so obvious no one disputed it then. Five Indians are equal to one Pakistani, the saying went during the war, and that was how they imply it was on the cricket field.
However, things are different now. It is different because Pakistanis, because they fight among themselves and have had bad politics and bad politicians, have not created a system, whereas Indians, devious and crafty and united (yes, some anti-Semitic tropes here, not very original) have gone from strength to strength, made money, consolidated power, created the IPL, a system of cricket so strong that their second XI can beat most world sides, and then yes they also control the BCCI and have systematically worked to dismantle Pakistani cricket (yes, here, they mirror what Bangladeshi fans say about India), and we, Pakistanis, have just allowed them to do so.
This narrative is then interspersed with a pitch for the current Pakistani great with the mic: if only they had made me the chairman, says Rashid Latif, or me, says Moin Khan, or me says Misbah, or me says Ramiz Raja (even though for a while he did hold the reins), the good times would never have stopped. Pakistanis still produce enormous talent, we still defeat India in all wars and down their planes (this comes up frequently without fail), but in cricket we are no longer competing with them.
That is because the selectors are all corrupt, Babar Azam selects his friends (says Ahmad Shahzad, who tried to convert Dilshan on the cricket field), and if our administrators had Pakistani cricket interests at heart, why would I not be running it.
For those thinking that this is a mean-minded interpretation, well, you obviously have not watched as much of the analysis I have (why do I do it, as I said, I love cringe content). Some Pakistani experts wear their mask better than others, and one reason is that many of them do paid engagements in India, but sometimes their true feelings come out, like when Waqar Younis said that Mohammed Rizwan offering namaz in front of Hindus felt special to him, or when Shoaib Akhtar brought up Ghazwa-e-Hind from nowhere. The only person I have always felt is different is Wasim Akram, but I should say that I have always been his fan, both as a player and as an analyzer of the game, and I might have glossed over things he may have said precisely because I admire him so much, though I will still say he is not like the others.
And as to Pakistani social media (as opposed to ex-cricketers), much of what they present as opinion is synthetic, designed for clicks and ad revenue. So they abuse India and then suck up, and then go off on a viral rant against their team, and then switch to India bashing again, swinging from one extreme to another, often the same person, based on how the algorithm is performing.
This is what Bangladeshi fans do not do as a rule. They are too proud to compromise on their opinions for money. So, whatever they say they mean. And I admire them for that.
With Pakistan, I respect the generation from the 80s and 90s and mid 2000s, for the way they played their game and for their cricketing skills.
They, then, truly were the better team.
But I cannot, because I know better, call them gracious.
Sorry.
@sathishpgw@greatbong Thank you for your pov. It was genuine question as it has an impact on India. Not sure where you found the underestimation in my question.