Vitalis 🇻🇦

Hi! I am a humble layman from the Apostolic Vicariate of Southern Arabia.

Sic luceat lux vestra coram hominibus

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

There were a couple things I didn't like about the bank app, including but not limited to, lack of compatibility with modern password managers through their implementation of a "virtual keyboard", forced biometric authentication, and forced app migrations. Instead of maintaining one app, they made a new app every occasion and forced customers to move to them. I was willing to tolerate these issues as long as I could move my money, but these recent downtimes drew out the last straw.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

"The First See is judged by no one" is both a legal and moral rule. Because the Church possesses all two swords, the spiritual sword is exercised by the Church directly, and the temporal sword is exercised for the Church by kings and rulers.

Same as how, our Lord said to Samuel, that you cannot judge a person's heart. It has no qualifier, legal or moral. You can judge the act, but not the heart. In the first place, civil laws are subject to the moral law because of the doctrine of the two swords.

As I said previously, while one may respectfully seek clarification from his local Bishop or respectfully discuss the prudence of disciplinary matters within the bounds established by the Church, no one has the authority to overturn or publicly nullify the judgment of the Supreme Pontiff.

Canon 212 §3 does not grant a license to publicly denounce or undermine the Roman Pontiff. Here is the full sentence:

According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.

The key word here is "without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.", which is grounded on fraternal correction, not public rebuke as you did a while ago. It must always be done without prejudice to faith and morals, with reverence toward pastors, for the common good, and with respect for the dignity of persons.

It cannot be invoked to justify scandal, contempt for ecclesiastical authority, or attempts to publicly nullify or overturn the judgment of the Supreme Pontiff.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

You appeal to Pope Innocent III, but his statement does not establish a general principle whereby individual Catholics may determine for themselves when papal authority ceases to bind.

Pope Innocent III distinguishes between divine revelation, which no pope can alter, and matters entrusted to the Church's lawful governance. No Catholic disputes that the Pope cannot change the Deposit of Faith.

Here is what the same Pope Innocent III said:

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

I'm not claiming that the Roman Pontiff was exercising papal infallibility when he excommunicated the Lefebvrists. I am saying that he was assisted by the Holy Spirit in the exercise of his office and did not defect from the faith in issuing that judgment. There is an important distinction between divine assistance and infallibility. In this case, I am speaking of assistance, not preservation from error.

A judicial act of the Roman Pontiff in a matter such as this one does touch upon faith and morals. The offense being judged which is the schismatic belief of the Lefebvrists concerns the faith, while the sentence itself is an act of justice, and justice belongs to the moral order. For that reason, the Pope is assisted by the Holy Spirit in the exercise of his office, even when he is not making an infallible definition of this excommunication.

Although such a judicial act is not itself an infallible pronouncement, it is not subject to judgment by anyone on earth. The First See has no earthly superior and is accountable to God alone.

Publicly opposing or condemning the Pope's judicial sentence as though one possessed authority to sit in judgment over it is an act contrary to the obedience owed to the Roman Pontiff.

While one may respectfully seek clarification from his local Bishop or respectfully discuss the prudence of disciplinary matters within the bounds established by the Church, no one has the authority to overturn or publicly nullify the judgment of the Supreme Pontiff.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

@CatholicSat He argues that a knowledge of canon law is necessary, when in reality a basic understanding of the distinction between formal heresy, material heresy, invincible ignorance, and culpability would do far more to clarify the issue from first principles.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

That is where Tradcaths drift from the liturgical philosophy of the Holy See. Because it is not a priest's right to celebrate an older form of the Roman Rite. It is a preference that comes with a license, not an entitlement.

Vatcan II called for a reform of the liturgy that would foster the full, conscious, and active participation of the faithful, while also permitting increased use of the vernacular so that the Gospel and the prayers of the Church ought to be understood more readily by people of all nations. This culminated in the promulgation of the reformed Roman Missal.

The Council's liturgical renewal remains the ordinary form of the Roman Rite and deserves our respect and fidelity as the main authentic exercise of the Church's authority.

If I were to attend a TLM, it would be out of intellectual curiosity or an appreciation for its historical and aesthetic qualities, not because I believe it is preferrable over the reformed liturgy.

Of course, prudence takes precedence, and some celebrations of the TLM are still permitted today. But this is not because the Church judges it to be ordinarily preferable. These permissions exist out of pastoral prudence, knowing that a sudden suppression would likely cause greater spiritual harm than good to some Catholics where they have not yet fully embraced the liturgical vision of Vatican II.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

Yes, I know. The OP implied that the excommunication had no real effect, as though the fact that his parish celebrates the TLM somehow makes him immune to it. I was pointing out that his recognition of papal authority appears to be selectively applied, as if it extends only to matters concerning the Novus Ordo rather than consistently across the entire Church.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

Yes, it is quite telling that the authority of the office does not depend on the personal holiness of its occupant whether present or past. The charism of indefectibility is preserved through divine providence. God has decreed that obedience is owed to the Petrine See, and in His eternal providence He likewise ordained that the office of the Bishop of Rome would, at the proper time, excommunicate these schismatic Lefebvrists.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

@kingofthehood89 @tradcatboy I think this guy's understanding of the Roman Pontiff's "full, supreme, immediate, and universal" authority stops at the Novus Ordo. 😅

[Vatican News @VaticanNews]

As regards the lay faithful, those who formally adhere to the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X are to be considered schismatic and excommunicated.

[Vatican News @VaticanNews]

The bishops of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, Alfonso de Galarreta and Bernard Fellay, together with the newly consecrated bishops, have incurred “ipso facto” excommunication “latae sententiae.”

[Vatican News @VaticanNews]

Excommunication decreed over Lefebvrite episcopal consecrations

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

Correct. The same principle applies before and after the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as it belongs to the Deposit of Faith which does not change. The Church Fathers spoke in light of Christ's own promises that blessed Peter's faith would not fail, that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church, and that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. These promises of Christ guarantee the Church's indefectibility and her preservation in the true faith.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

The sacrament is an act of God through a human instrument where He promised to act in a specific way, such as forgiving sins, when a set of conditions are fulfilled.

It is distinct from a mere prayer, where it is unclear whether He would grant exactly what is requested, grant something better, delay His answer, or withhold what is asked for.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

I agree that Catholics should never concede any part of the faith to anyone. However, this same principle does not conflict with the obligation to practice prudence and charity in every aspect of our lives, including when engaging with people of other religions.

There is a way to speak to others with genuine love and respect without compromising the truth of the faith. That is what the Church has always taught us to do.

The Church teaches us that the sacrament of Matrimony is the lifelong union of one man and one woman. The Church blesses sinners of every kind including those who experience same-sex attraction. These blessings are directed toward the person and not the relationship or the sin. Their purpose is to dispose the recipient to receive God's grace and to grow in holiness even though no sacrament is being conferred.

By cooperating with God's grace, they can overcome disordered inclinations and grow in virtue. The Church calls every Christian regardless of the temptations he experiences to chastity, repentance, and holiness.

The purpose of Traditionis Custodes purpose was to place the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass under the discernment of the bishop acting according to the norms established by the Holy See. A priest exercises his ministry under the authority of his bishop and is bound to obey the legitimate discipline of the Church.

We should evaluate these questions in light of the Church's entire history and not merely by what occurred during the 20th century.

The Traditional Latin Mass itself was promulgated in its standardized form by Pope St. Pius V in 1570. Before that codification, there were numerous legitimate local uses and liturgical variations existed throughout the Latin Church. The standardization of the Roman Missal did not create the Mass, rather it unified an already existing liturgical tradition.

The existence of earlier liturgical forms does not mean that Masses celebrated before 1570 were invalid or deficient. Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church and therefore the Church cannot defect from the faith. She remains the visible Church established by Christ throughout every age.

There have been many legitimate liturgical developments since the Last Supper. During the time of the Apostles, for example, men and women had to stand separately during worship and the kiss of peace was exchanged between members of the same sex. These practices have changed yet the substance of the Mass has remained intact.

The fact that we now exchange the Sign of Peace instead of the ancient kiss of peace does not mean the essential form of the Mass has been lost or that our Sunday obligation is no longer fulfilled.

The Church has always possessed the authority to regulate and reform her liturgy. If she lacked that authority, then even the TLM would have been an illegitimate innovation since it differs in many disciplinary and ceremonial respects from the liturgies celebrated in the 1st and 2nd centuries.

[🇻🇦☦️ Scholastic Crusader ❤️‍🔥🦎 @Scholastic101]

Pope Pius X vs the SSPX

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

I would not concede that point to him. The authority of the Pope subsists in the keys entrusted by Christ to Peter and his successors. The nature of those keys is juridical and coercive and is the power to bind and loose. Since the Roman Pontiff possesses true coercive authority over post-baptismal souls by divine institution, it is irrespective of whether @EvidenceOfFaith acknowledges himself to be Catholic.

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

I'm happy to acknowledge you as a devoted Christian. But devotion without sound doctrine is blind. Christ did not call us just to be sincere. He called us to know the truth, remain in it, and obey it. The Catholic faith unites right belief, right worship, and holy living. It is therefore inconsistent to claim to serve Christ while rejecting His Body, the Church, and the rightful shepherds He appointed to govern it. To love Christ is to receive the Church He established, not to separate Him from it.

SATIS COGNITUM, POPE LEO XIII:

Union with the Roman See of Peter is to him always the public criterion of a Catholic. "I acknowledge everyone who is united with the See of Peter" (Ep. xvi., ad Damasum, n. 2).

And for a like reason St. Augustine publicly attests that, "the primacy of the Apostolic chair always existed in the Roman Church" (Ep. xliii., n. 7); and he denies that anyone who dissents from the Roman faith can be a Catholic. "You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held" (Sermo cxx., n. 13).

So, too, St. Cyprian: "To be in communion with Cornelius is to be in communion with the Catholic Church" (Ep. lv., n. 1). In the same way Maximus the Abbot teaches that obedience to the Roman Pontiff is the proof of the true faith and of legitimate communion.

Therefore if a man does not want to be, or to be called, a heretic, let him not strive to please this or that man...but let him hasten before all things to be in communion with the Roman See. If he be in communion with it, he should be acknowledged by all and everywhere as faithful and orthodox.

He speaks in vain who tries to persuade me of the orthodoxy of those who, like himself, refuse obedience to his Holiness the Pope of the most holy Church of Rome: that is to the Apostolic See." The reason and motive of this he explains to be that "the Apostolic See has received and hath government, authority, and power of binding and loosing from the Incarnate Word Himself; and, according to all holy synods, sacred canons and decrees, in all things and through all things, in respect of all the holy churches of God throughout the whole world, since the Word in Heaven who rules the Heavenly powers binds and loosens there" (Defloratio ex Epistola ad Petrum illustrem).

Read more here: https://t.co/qzhRXotvHx

[Vitalis 🇻🇦 @enrixrp]

@cwlkr2023 @KoramProNobis You quoted a word that was not even in the post you're replying to, but since you brought it up, I'm wondering if you personally know what the Church has taught about what makes someone a Catholic?