First of Kind

First of Kind is the story of design and tech told by its pioneers • Powered by @framer @bot @vercel @profound @noondesign @tryramp @meetgranola

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Can a designer-founder win the VC game by ignoring all of its rules?

Season 3, Episode 3 is here:
How @karrisaarinen built @linear to win through quality above all else – now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[Soleio @soleio]

The design lesson @dbabbs took from Uber wasn’t about how it looks.

“Does it make money? Does it move the needle?”

A one-pixel change on a button could shift millions of dollars in a day. That’s the perspective he brought to @profound.

Hear more on @firstofkind LIVE from @SPC

[Dylan Babbs @dbabbs]

It was a pleasure returning to @spc NYC, right where @profound started, to talk about our story, particularly how design plays such an important part.

Thanks for the excellent conversation, @soleio!

Part 2 of my interview with @firstofkind comes Thursday.

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

The only thing between you and success is being cringe.

“Just get over yourself. Nobody actually cares.” @dbabbs, the CTO and cofounder of @profound, on why you should go start the company before you look back and wish you had.

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Dylan Babbs tried 12 to 15 ideas before Profound. The one that worked took three days.

Season 3, Episode 4, Part 1 is here:
LIVE from SPC – @dbabbs joins @soleio before a live audience at @spc, where @profound got its start. Now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Part 2 drops Thursday.

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Everyone in tech is talking about taste. @dbabbs thinks it’s simpler than that.

“With visual design, you don’t have to be that creative. I think you need to understand what looks good. And then just put in the reps to really nail it.”

The CTO and cofounder of @profound, recorded live at @SPC.

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Dylan Babbs tried 12 to 15 ideas before Profound. The one that worked took three days.

Season 3, Episode 4, Part 1 is here:
LIVE from SPC – @dbabbs joins @soleio before a live audience at @spc, where @profound got its start. Now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Part 2 drops Thursday.

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Adjust a button’s border radius by one pixel. Watch millions of dollars made or lost in a day.

That’s the business-driven product design @dbabbs learned at Uber, before he started @profound: “It doesn’t matter how good it looks. Does it make money? Does it move the needle?”

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Dylan Babbs tried 12 to 15 ideas before Profound. The one that worked took three days.

Season 3, Episode 4, Part 1 is here:
LIVE from SPC – @dbabbs joins @soleio before a live audience at @spc, where @profound got its start. Now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Part 2 drops Thursday.

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Every investor assembles an anti-portfolio. @soleio has @profound sitting high up on his wall.

In front of the @SPC community, he asks what @dbabbs and @thejamescad saw that he entirely missed: “We were just crazy. I don’t really think it’s that much more deep than that.”

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Dylan Babbs tried 12 to 15 ideas before Profound. The one that worked took three days.

Season 3, Episode 4, Part 1 is here:
LIVE from SPC – @dbabbs joins @soleio before a live audience at @spc, where @profound got its start. Now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Part 2 drops Thursday.

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Dylan Babbs tried 12 to 15 ideas before Profound. The one that worked took three days.

Season 3, Episode 4, Part 1 is here:
LIVE from SPC – @dbabbs joins @soleio before a live audience at @spc, where @profound got its start. Now available on 𝕏, YouTube, and Instagram

Part 2 drops Thursday.

Powered by @framer @noondesign @bot @tryramp @vercel @meetgranola @profound

Hosted by @soleio and coproduced with @Room3NYC

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Bug tracking isn’t exciting, but builders have to do it almost every day.

@karrisaarinen tells @soleio why he started @linear: “It just feels so bad that people have to use bad tools.” Why delivering a high quality experience is reward enough.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/G9Zw6Y08ro

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

“I want to build a company I can be proud of, not just that the company is successful.”

@karrisaarinen tells @soleio about resisting the temptation to take morally questionable shortcuts to win.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

“I think you can learn a lot about a person by how they arrange flowers.” @soleio opines.

@karrisaarinen then explains the more practical way @linear evaluates designers instead.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

“Refusing to instrument your software is willful ignorance!”

@soleio and @karrisaarinen debate flying by the dials versus looking out the window, and why most companies fatally pick one.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

One question sits at the heart of @firstofkind

@soleio asks @karrisaarinen how design pioneers come to see themselves as fit to build something new. Karri’s answer starts in a bicycle shop.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[Wikman @mattiaswikman]

I love a good canvas. I also love jumping straight into code.

Really enjoyed the conversation between @soleio and @karrisaarinen about how we explore, design, and build. Two inspiring designers with different perspectives on where discovery happens.

I’ve always believed in sketching by hand, collecting references, building moodboards, and exploring compositions side by side in Figma.

At the same time, I love getting into code early. Ideas that look great on a canvas can feel completely different once you start using them.

Today, with Figma, MCP, and code connected, I find myself moving back and forth constantly.

And that’s also why I see the Pure site as a place to build in public. A work in progress, shaped by human curiosity, exploration, and the freedom to try things, let them sit for a while, revisit decisions, and sometimes start over.

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Just as good coffee ruins mediocre coffee, the same holds true for software.

@soleio with @karrisaarinen on how @linear recalibrates the palate: “Once you start experiencing good things, it’s kinda hard to go back to the bad things.”

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/G9Zw6Y08ro

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Startups used to be faster than the market by nature. But now that dynamic has inverted.

@soleio with @karrisaarinen on why @linear now learns from real users sooner: “We do have more urgency of figuring things out because the market is moving so fast.”

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/G9Zw6Y08ro

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

Engineers are doing PM work. Designers are learning to code.

@karrisaarinen explains to @soleio why @linear isn’t playing musical chairs: “What is the benefit of reshuffling the roles?”

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[Soleio @soleio]

Got fed up with Adobe Premiere’s captions — their line-height jumps around depending on the presence or absence of descenders

Then remembered I’m a designer who builds, so @firstofkind might get a new use out of our homegrown Mosaic Studio

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

School felt fake to Karri Saarinen. Making things for other people did not.

@soleio with @karrisaarinen on where his drive comes from and how he found meaning making things for others.

Full episode of HOW WE WIN: https://t.co/UHndJTCy06

[Soleio @soleio]

First of Kind: The @karrisaarinen interview

Can a designer-founder win the VC game ignoring all its rules?

Karri Saarinen’s uncompromising and distinct approach to quality has made him an iconic designer/CEO. Will that same playbook hold up in the agentic age?

00:00 Winning by Your Own Rules
03:12 Quality Is Directional
06:24 Do You Design in Code?
15:45 Owning the Problem
22:45 Beyond the Issue Tracker
26:36 The Bull Case for Design
28:45 Do We Still Need UI?
33:02 The Car Designer of Software
37:37 School Feels Fake
40:59 Never Build the MVP
43:56 Clarity of Scope
45:37 Linear Recalibrates the Palate

—
Karri Saarinen: How We Win
First of Kind S3 E03

Powered by @bot @framer @tryramp @vercel @noondesign @meetgranola @profound

[First of Kind @firstofkind]

@soleio @karrisaarinen Also available wherever you enjoy listening to premium podcasts:

https://t.co/ZTdA7FcsbD

[Johan Bakken @johanbakken]

Karri is so good