Paul Heberling

Likes discussing philosophical theology. Likes Archery, Mountains and the Great Pacific Northwest. Married with five kids.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

https://t.co/Wg8BshP2XA

Very robust view of determinism in my opinion. What do you guys think?

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 Yes, he has no categorical power, but that’s LFW which is q begging. It’s actually reasonable because there is a sufficient reason for why he determines to choose. Unlike on an indeterminist view where he chooses ultimately for no sufficient reason whatsoever…

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 That is the condition he was born. You might be conflating that with categorical ability where everything remaining the same, he cannot want to. But if he wants to he can because the conditions change. To be able to want to regardless of conditions makes the choice unreasonable

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 Yes, he would say, for sure. However, he would not deny that they always have (even from birth) the conditional ability to do otherwise necessary for moral responsibility which is compatible with determinism.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 Bc you’re using moral capacity ambiguously and not philosophically precise language. Have you read Guillaume Bignon or are aware of Tim Stratton and Guillaume’s back and forth interactions?

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 @salvo_mich47382 Yes but John 3:16 and 1 Tim 2:4 are little more vague and don’t have hypothetical argumentation

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@rootcausesleuth @ArthurMooreIV Yes, that they are born unable in the categorical sense of ability (not necessary for moral responsibility). But they are still born able in the conditional sense of ability (which is necessary for moral responsibility).

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@rootcausesleuth @ArthurMooreIV Yes, it’s valid just not the entire truth. 👍

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@rootcausesleuth @ArthurMooreIV Yes, it’s not wrong, it’s just not precise.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@rootcausesleuth @ArthurMooreIV Yes, that’s true, in a sense.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@rootcausesleuth @ArthurMooreIV Yes, I said they’re still unable. But just not in all senses.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 As I said earlier. The categorical ability (on LFW) not compatible with determinism has man making choices without sufficient reason since all prior reasons aren’t sufficient to determine the choice. These choices therefore are spontaneous. How could he be responsible on this 🤷‍♂️

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 It was real. Actually genuine. Bc they determined it. doesn’t seem real making a choice ultimately undetermined. On indeterminism you have contingent beings that are determined by God, in that they are created, yet they are making choices being ultimately undetermined by God.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 it’s conditional. Which seems quite reasonable. “I would have gone fishing if I had a fishing pole.” Theres reason for the choice. Whereas LFW has a categorical. “With the all conditions fixed, I would have gone fishing regardless of if I had a pole or not or even wanted to.” 🤔

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 @BrittAmberH Wouldn’t it technically be that they have fallen short of the glory of God? Which is to fail to obey the law and thereby stand condemned? Could they have kept this perfectly? If not, what then? disciples of Jesus supposed to be perfect as their father in heaven is 🤔

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 That’s the thing tho. Determinism is compatible with ppl being able to respond differently (in a sense). And also with a God who is sovereign enuff to create ppl who can make real choices he doesn’t determine (in a sense).

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@salvo_mich47382 @Soteriology101 Free will is totally compatible with determinism just fyi. Not libertarian view of free will that be. No need to give up so much ground

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 Seems a little loaded bc a determinist can affirm God is able and in fact does create creatures who make decisions he himself doesn’t determine… in a sense. Namely, that he creates (determines) their nature, who they are, and they determine their own choices, not him.

[Paul Heberling @heberling_paul]

@Soteriology101 …to occur, it seems that would include their intentions since they cannot do something intentionally and it not be fundamentally of who they are.
So
1 God predetermined ppl to kill Jesus
2 all ppl have intentions
3 God predetermined ppls intentions to kill Jesus.
Seems logical