@montageek18@Henni147@ulrinis TBH skaters jumping after backspins is commonly done in practice and makes the jump easier? Maybe that's what the ISU means? Of course a quad is probably really hard after a spin but a triple is commonly done. It makes it easier to get your rotations (bc you're already spinning)
@for__ami@tea_zamboni @grasslbot The reality is they say "performance" is hard to judge with machines, but it's not like judges judge performance accurately themselves either, so even a random number generator would probably be more fair than ISU's own judges.
@for__ami@tea_zamboni @grasslbot Of course, we all know they want things to be as opaque as possible. They SAY AI and automated judging would "take away the human element of figure skating that we know and love" but what they mean is "it would make it hard for us to be corrupt" so of course they won't 😂
@for__ami@tea_zamboni @grasslbot Performance is subjective and shouldn't be a PCS category. Other things PCS is meant to cover (speed, edge qual, ice cov, transitions, etc) CAN be quantified, and if we restrict PCS to those categories it won't make things 100% fair but will be miles better than what we have now.
@Henni147@tea_zamboni @grasslbot That's too complicated, IMO. Dance movements are too hard to quantify and their difficulties are still pretty subjective. Sounds impossible to pull off objectively to me.
@RealKurtPowers @eeh_ecks_oh @cr0b1n@BOOPYUZU Okay but it's not the definition of the word that Yuzu used not what the Top of the thread used so why are you insisting on using this definition 🤷
@Henni147 @Lie111Zard @Av0cad0onToast Looking at the Oly 4S clip, the Zth-dimensional momentum of the jump is the most salient feature but hard to tell via video. However, assuming constant camera angle, he lands in the direction he takes off, which makes it a full 3.5 rotations & consistent with 1/2 PR as expected.
@Henni147 @Lie111Zard @Av0cad0onToast Because skaters jump sals and loops on curves (even moreso than a flip or a lutz), it makes it hard to measure PR and is in most cases not that interesting because most of them just PR exactly 180 degrees as the mechanisms of the jump doesn't really allow for much variance.
@Henni147 @Lie111Zard @Av0cad0onToast It's not that easy to over- or under-PR a salchow or a loop, I think. The mechanisms of those two jumps make things pretty consistent. Even skaters like Satoko who massively PRs have a fine sal/loop. PR is honestly more of a factor in lutzes and flips (and nowadays axels).
@Henni147@Av0cad0onToast Either way, 100% agree with your analysis, especially on the other jumps where the PR difference is egregious (ie flip and lutz). Thanks for pulling and fitting the data, it makes the outliers very obvious.
@Henni147 ok i found a good video.
this "J" shaped tracing is his takeoff. it's a very classic trace for a salchow. there is always a tiny little flag (i marked it with red) at the end of that "J" showing a 1/2 PR. it's the correct technique for a sal but hard to see bc it happens so fast.
@Henni147 The mechanisms of S and Lo require a 1/2 pre-rotation, if you do any less it is technically wrong. It's probably not possible to see the amount of pre-rotation without looking at ice tracings, but looking at ice curves for his 4S, it's most likely 1/2 PR.