BUT THE ADVANCED STATS LOVE KON
Win Shares:
FLAGG — 3.8
KON — 8.1
Box/Plus Minus
FLAGG — 1.5
KON — 3.1
VORP:
FLAGG — 1.9
KON — 3.1
Cool, hey did you know...
Neemias Queta (8.5), Donovan Clingan (7.9), and Moussa Diabate (7.2) have more WIN SHARES than Jaylen Brown (6.9) or Anthony Edwards (6.6), and LaMelo (5.9)?
Paul Reed (4.7), Robert Williams (4.7), and Luke Kornet (3.6) have higher BOX PLUS MINUS' than Jalen Brunson (2.9), DeAaron Fox (2.2), and Devin Booker (2.0)?
Collin Gillespie (2.6), Reed Sheppard (2.4), and Sandro Mamukelashvili (2.0) have a higher VORP than Stephon Castle (1.9), Lauri Markkanen (1.6), Dillon Brooks (-0.1)?
"It's Rookie of the YEAR, not the last couple of weeks..."
Cool, Flagg averaged 20.4 points, 6.6 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 2.0 stocks for the first 50 games too...
Here is the entire list of NBA Players (not Rookies) averaging that line this season:
Nikola Jokic
Alperen Sengun
Cooper Flagg
love these guys but are we shocked the ‘Nerd Sesh’ Pod is mounting an impassioned defense of Kon? lol
I’m gonna lay it out 1 last time & I’m done after forgive me (I post long ass stuff anyway so idc). This is rebuttal to your pod & many of the Pro-Kon arguments I’m seeing.
Kon v Flagg, at this point, is a straight up classical ball & eye test vs the modern nba love of advanced metrics
one’s role is classic center piece of an offense, primary option & playmaker. He leads his team in every statistical category (pts, reb, ast, blks & stls - which is absurd btw), he avg more pts, reb, ast, stls & blks than the other. Is 3rd in NBA in 40pt games this yr, notched a 50pt game as youngest ever… a strong 2 way player w outstanding defensive attributes. Eye test & gross stats depict one of the greatest prospects ever & all time rookie seasons.
the other has a clearly defined supporting role on top rated offense next to Lamelo & BM. He broke the rookie record for made 3s, leads the nba in made 3’s & is shooting at absurd efficiency. all while helping the franchise jump into an 8 seed play-in spot w chance at 6.
when you lay out the numbers & arguments of both players, the advanced metrics will mostly lean Kon - but when you boil allll those metrics down, its 20 different equations to tell the same story:
- better shooting & efficiency
- better offensive/net ratings
the latter, no matter how you want to spin it, are more indicative of *team success* vs individual. if you think on/off or off rating tell more of an individual story vs a story of who’s on the floor around you, we’ve lost the plot.
these metrics are an important variable in MVP debates bc we’re splitting hairs on the best players on the best teams. we need context to help paint the impact & quantify value. but they are (or rather *should* be) irrelevant in a ROTY race comparing guys on LOTTERY & PLAY IN teams.
truly lay out what Kon has outpaced or outperformed Coop in this year, it still boils down to 2 things: shooting efficiency & made 3’s. boiled even *further* down? = shooting. NOT scoring, just, shooting.
eye test, raw numbers, best performances all tell us Coop. every element of the game: passing, scoring, defense, transition - all tell us Coop - minus shooting.
MVP debates have also poisoned the well here. We are so engrained when comparing players to measure winning, on/off & net ratings to value a player - this is NOT an MVP debate.
We at NO point considered Chet Holmgren’s role on a top seeded Thunder - even though he “impacted winning” & “contributed right away” to #1 seed - as a valid argument for a better rookie season for ROTY. Victor won (unanimously) w 22 wins & the 14 seed. Why? Raw numbers & eye tests all told us this is the better player, having the better *individual* season. OKC’s success was not a factor, contributing right way was not a factor.
Chet was +422(!) his rookie yr
Wemby was -142
This is not an MVP debate. off rating, BPM, efficiency, standings - all tertiary.
stop the overthinking, let the eyes & raw numbers tell the story. it’s Cooper Flagg’s award.
Seeing PLENTY of officiating discourse on the TL so here's my two cents.
-1st play. Beginning of the drive that ended in the McMillian INT which I believe was ruled 100% correctly. Pretty clear hold on DJ Jones that *possibly* could've been ruled in the end zone as a safety ending the game.
-2nd play. First DPI on game winning drive. Very clear roughing the passer on Bosa which would've been a -2 yard difference if the DPI wasn't called.
-3rd play. Ending the game with yellow is never fun but very clear DPI with White being early and pulling Mims' left arm down before the ball arrives.
Refs didn't hand this win to Denver by any stretch of imagination.
I really dislike when folks who have never played football say “don’t lead with your head then”. It is physically impossible to tackle without your head leaning forward. And you have no idea how the target will move and adjust. Easy to say from your couch but couldn’t do it.
Worst decisions/mistakes in human history:
(1) The Mavericks trading Luka Doncic
(2) Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden tree
(3) The British wearing bright red coats in the American Revolution
(4) Fast and Furious 9
(6) The Taco Bell Seafood Salad
(7) Japan attacking Pearl Harbor
(8) The Empire leaving an exhaust port on the Death Star
(9) The Perm Mullet
(10) The Chris Gaines alter ego
(11) Portland drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
(12) Burger King’s Halloween Whopper
(13) Blockbuster opting NOT to buy Netflix for $50 million
(14) Building communities next to active volcanos
(15) Summertime Jorts
Please add anything else that should also be on this important list:
Dirk:
"I feel bad for my Mavs fans. This has been a disastrous start. Obviously, there's a hole at the point guard and playmaking position...at shot creating, at shot making. They can't shoot, they can't make plays...nobody can make shots. It's been tough to watch"