@BeggarWithBread gift giver: “hey i got you this car as a gift!” gift receiver : “so i need to change the oil and rotate the tires?!? that’s not a gift!!”
1. The Son is God.
2. Mary is the mother of the Son.
3. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God.
4. The Person born of Mary is the Word.
5. The Word is God (John 1:1).
6. Therefore the Person born of Mary is God.
7. There is only one God.
8. That one God exists in three Persons.
9. Only one of those Persons became flesh.
10. Therefore only one Person has a mother, and that Person is God.
Yup, simple.
You have one God who became man without ceasing to be God, not three gods and a goddess. Calling that polytheism is the same category error Muhammad made when he thought Christians worshiped Father, Mother, and Son as a triad. The title never meant she generated the Trinity. It means she bore the Person who is God.
rome is named openly in acts, romans, and the pastorals. that doesnt decide how peter writes in a circular letter to churches in pontus, galatia, cappadocia, asia, and bithynia. “babylon” as a name for the imperial power that crushed god’s people was already a jewish convention before revelation. 4 ezra, 2 baruch, and the sibylline oracles use it that way. revelation did not invent the cipher, it used an existing one. peter’s audience of “elect exiles of the dispersion” (1 pet 1:1) would hear the same overtone: the new babylon, the place of exile under a hostile empire. 1 peter is not a letter written by people who think theyre safe. its written to people already suffering slander, social pressure, and the threat of worse (1:6–7; 2:12; 3:13–17; 4:12–19; 5:8–10). the letter tells them not to be surprised by the “fiery trial.” that is not the voice of someone who assumes the empire is friendly. a greeting that said “the church in rome sends greetings” would locate the sending community and its leader for anyone who intercepted the letter. “she who is in babylon” does the same job for the intended readers and does less for a hostile official. prudence is not the same thing as fear. paul can greet saints in caesar’s household in philippians 4:22 because he is writing from rome to philippi about believers inside the palace. that is not the same speech act as peter identifying the city from which a general letter is being sent. there is no early christian memory of peter ministering in mesopotamian babylon. the city was a shadow of itself.
what the catholic church actually teaches regarding works and salvation; CCC 1996
“Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call…”
CCC 2010
“Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion.”
CCC 2027 (In Brief)
“No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion.”
CCC 2005
“We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.”
CCC 1992 quotes Romans 3:24: we are “justified by his grace as a gift.”
The Catechism also cites St. Augustine: the justification of the sinner is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth, precisely because it is mercy, not something we produce.
Once grace has justified a person (normally in Baptism), the Catechism teaches a real but secondary role for works done in charity:
CCC 1993
“Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom.”
CCC 2008
“The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace… the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful.”
CCC 2025–2026
Merit is possible only because God freely associates us with His work. Charity is the principal source of any merit we have.
@avalioplantas yet i bet they’re rates of anxiety and depression are a fraction of the “civilized” worlds. just leave them alone, they’ve been getting by like this for thousands of years, they’ll be fine.
1. Salvation by grace through faith that works in love (not “faith alone”) — Eph. 2:8-9 is about the source of salvation (grace), not the exclusion of works. James 2:24, Gal. 5:6, Matt. 25:31-46, and Rev. 20:12 all show works as the fruit and completion of living faith. “Faith without works is dead.”
2. Purgatory (final purification) — Heb. 9:27 says we die once and then face judgment; it does not deny a purifying process before the beatific vision. 1 Cor. 3:13-15, Matt. 12:32, 2 Macc. 12:46, and 1 Pet. 3:19 point to it. The early Church prayed for the dead.
3. The Rosary — Matt. 6:7 condemns vain repetition (babbling like pagans), not all repetition. Jesus Himself repeated prayers (Matt. 26:44), the Psalms are full of it, and the angels cry “Holy, holy, holy” forever (Rev. 4:8). The Hail Mary is Luke 1:28 + 1:42.
4. Honoring Mary, not worshiping her — Catholics give latria (worship) to God alone and hyperdulia (highest honor) to Mary. Luke 4:8 is about worshiping God; it does not forbid honoring the Mother of God whom Elizabeth called “the mother of my Lord” (Luke 1:43) and whom all generations call blessed (Luke 1:48).
5. Sacred Tradition alongside Scripture — 2 Thess. 2:15 and 1 Cor. 11:2 command holding to oral apostolic tradition. Mark 7:8 and Col. 2:8 condemn human traditions that nullify God’s word, not the Tradition the apostles handed down. The canon of Scripture itself comes from Tradition.
6. Sacred images, not idol worship — Ex. 20:4-5 forbids making images to worship them as gods. God Himself commanded images (Ex. 25:18-22 cherubim; Num. 21:8-9 bronze serpent). Statues and icons are like family photos, not gods.
7. Confession to a priest — John 20:21-23: “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them.” James 5:16. 1 Tim. 2:5 says there is one Mediator, Jesus; priests act in persona Christi, not instead of Him.
8. Ministerial priesthood and the common priesthood of all believers — 1 Pet. 2:9 is true of every Christian. It does not abolish the distinct ministerial priesthood Christ established (John 20:21-23; Acts 14:23; 1 Tim. 4:14; Heb. 5:1). Both exist.
9. No salvation outside the Church Christ founded — Acts 4:12 says salvation is in Jesus. The Catholic Church is His Body (Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18). Extra ecclesiam nulla salus means there is no other name or body through which He ordinarily saves.
10. Mary’s perpetual virginity — Matt. 1:25 (“until”) does not imply relations afterward (same Greek usage in 2 Sam. 6:23). “Brothers” of Jesus are cousins or kin (common Semitic usage). The early Church universally held this.
11. The Assumption of Mary — John 3:13 refers to no one ascending by his own power except the Son of Man. Enoch and Elijah were taken up. Rev. 12 and the Ark typology, plus the ancient feast, support it. Not every revealed truth is written in one verse.
12. Calling priests “Father” — Matt. 23:9 is hyperbole against pride and seeking titles for their own sake, not a ban on the word. Paul calls himself a father (1 Cor. 4:15), Abraham is called father, and we all say “Our Father.” Context matters.
13. The Church as teacher and interpreter — 1 John 2:27 is about the anointing guarding against antichrists, not a license for private interpretation. 2 Pet. 1:20, Acts 8:30-31 (Ethiopian eunuch), and 2 Pet. 3:16 show Scripture can be twisted and needs the Church Christ left to teach (Matt. 16:18-19; 1 Tim. 3:15).
As a tall man, 6’3”, I will not look at anything under 0.7 hip to waist ratio. It’s a preference since I enjoy a nice feminine figure. It feels awkward being next to a woman romantically who doesn’t have the proportions I’m attracted to. Men yearn for feminine women. We want women who are attractive and feminine to us. If a woman doesn’t have that shape, unfortunately I won’t feel the same level of attraction as I would toward a woman who does.
the claim that saints in heaven can’t hear us treats death as a hard wall and treats heaven as if it were just earth with better lighting. catholic/orthodox teaching does not start from “god can do anything so whatever we invent is true.” it starts from the communion of saints, from texts that already show the dead in christ still acting, and from the early church actually doing this long before later polemics. scripture does not treat the righteous dead as deaf. jesus says god is not the god of the dead but of the living, for all live to him (luke 20:38). the transfiguration has moses and elijah speaking with christ; they are not cut off. in luke 16 abraham converses across the gulf. revelation 5:8 and 8:3-4 show the twenty four elders and an angel holding golden bowls of incense which are the prayers of the saints and offering them before the throne. if heavenly beings are presenting earthly prayers, they are not unaware of them. hebrews 12:1 calls the departed a great cloud of witnesses surrounding the race; spectators who cannot see the runners are a poor image. 2 maccabees 15 (received as scripture by catholics and orthodox) has the departed high priest onias praying for the living people and jeremiah, already long dead, still “praying much for the people and the holy city.” that is intercession after death, not a later invention. the “they would have to hear thousands of mental prayers at once, therefore omniscience” objection confuses two things. omniscience is unlimited knowledge of all possible truths. a finite number of petitions, even a huge finite number, is not that. thomistic and patristic theology locates the knowledge in the beatific vision: the blessed see in the word what pertains to their charity and their role as intercessors. they do not become gods; they share, by grace, what god chooses to show them. 2 peter 1:4 already speaks of becoming partakers of the divine nature. the same lord who let elisha know gehazi’s secret or let peter know ananias’s lie can let a glorified saint know a request made in his name. that is not an extra scriptural leap, it is consistent with how scripture already shows created intellects receiving knowledge they could not have by nature. the living body analogy cuts the other way once you accept that death does not amputate a member from christ. we already ask living christians to pray for us (1 tim 2:1, jas 5:16). the church has always held that those made perfect (heb 12:23) are more, not less, able to do the same. there is no requirement that a person on earth hear nonlocal mental prayer; the state of the blessed is not the state of the pilgrim. insisting that heaven must operate by earth’s sensory limits is the real hypothetical.
early practice matches the texts. third century catacomb graffiti at san sebastiano ask peter and paul by name to intercede (“paule et petre petite pro victore,” “in mente habete nos”). origen, writing around 233, says not only christ but “the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” pray for those who pray. cyprian assumes mutual prayer continues after one dies. this is not medieval accretion. it is already the ordinary piety of the undivided church.
so the demand for a verse that says “you must verbally address departed saints” is the same demand that would also erase infant baptism, the trinity formula, or sunday worship. the church reads the whole canon plus the living tradition that produced the canon. the saints hear because they live in christ, because scripture already shows heavenly offering of earthly prayer, and because the body is not broken by death. that is the positive case, not an argument from silence plus “god can.”
what the catholic church actually teaches regarding works and salvation; CCC 1996
“Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call…”
CCC 2010
“Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion.”
CCC 2027 (In Brief)
“No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion.”
CCC 2005
“We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.”
CCC 1992 quotes Romans 3:24: we are “justified by his grace as a gift.”
The Catechism also cites St. Augustine: the justification of the sinner is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth, precisely because it is mercy, not something we produce.
Once grace has justified a person (normally in Baptism), the Catechism teaches a real but secondary role for works done in charity:
CCC 1993
“Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom.”
CCC 2008
“The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace… the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful.”
CCC 2010 (second half)
“Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”
CCC 2025–2026
Merit is possible only because God freely associates us with His work. Charity is the principal source of any merit we have.
@HeadbangerDNB@undeadn8ve51@CedarsAndSaints it’s what the bible actually says…2 thessalonains 2:15 “So then, brothers, stand firm and HOLD TO THE TRADITIONS that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” meaning keep the traditions, even those that weren’t written down…