This is from an exploration with Fable last night:
"Fee" descends through Old French fief and Medieval Latin feudum from Frankish fehu: cattle. Old English feoh meant both cattle and money. Latin pecunia comes from pecus, livestock; "capital" from caput, a head of cattle; "chattel" and "cattle" are the same word. Nearly every deep word for wealth in our languages is a livestock word, because the original form of capital was the self-replicating asset: the herd, the seed. Agriculture was humanity's first machine layer of self-replicators — and the political economy that formed on top of it was feudalism. The replicator (seed, herd) was cheap; the substrate (land) was scarce; and the surplus was gated by armed protection relationships. When you say "the fee becomes a machine layer," you're closing a loop several thousand years old: wealth began as a self-replicating layer, was abstracted into land tenure, then into money, and now proposes to return to self-replicating form.
@sebkrier@n_reruns I see this damper a “software-only singularity”, but I expect the AI embedded in institutions now, as it starts to RSI, will empower people in them to move at a pace that causes slow movement to become closer to dereliction and we enter an intense singularity regime.
@Brad08414464@tszzl I doubt this given that decision-making is an intellectual domain, and so when the post-IE AI starts offering decision-makers options to command capital and labor, I expect a wild and quickly obvious ride.
I love America 🇺🇸
She is a magnificent aberration among the history of nations. A living defiance of the naysayers who said it couldn't be done. Proving a preposterous premise that a carefully constructed system of self-governance could self-propel against all odds of human nature.
We are four billion years into our evolution on this planet. In this moment, as we give birth to super intelligence and begin evolving ourselves into something new, I am grateful America is the cradle for what comes next.
That she nurtures the dreamers and doers, inviting them to deepen their imaginations and quicken their speed.
America the beautiful.
Thine alabaster cities gleam, undimmed by human tears.
from fable 5 max
Start with the coincidence of dates, because it's almost too neat: Keynes wrote "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" in 1930 and set his horizon at a hundred years — by around 2030, he argued, capital accumulation and technical progress would essentially solve "the economic problem," the struggle for subsistence that had defined the species. He coined "technological unemployment" in that essay, and he insisted the term named a temporary maladjustment rather than a tragedy: the real event was mankind being relieved of its oldest burden. The thread under Musk's post is, date for date, the conversation Keynes scheduled. And Harvey's opening move — that living off machine output is not different in kind from living off held land, that both are drawing on a fee rather than making — is a property-law translation of Keynes's endpoint. When the economic problem is solved, everyone stands to the productive apparatus as an heir stands to an estate: the relation is tenure, not toil. Keynes then posed what he called the permanent problem — how to live "wisely and agreeably and well" once necessity retreats — and his own answer was aesthetic and a little thin: the art of life itself, the honored "lilies of the field," cultivated enjoyment. He was nervous about it, too; he pointed to the already-rich as the advance guard spying out the promised land and judged their performance dismal, the leisured wives of the well-to-do unable to find anything to do with freedom. Harvey's post supplies the answer Keynes couldn't: not the individual art of living but the thick life of family and community — meaning reorganized around membership rather than either production or connoisseurship.
The deepest point of contact, though, is where they diverge. Keynes believed the morality of scarcity would dissolve along with scarcity — that we would shed the "pseudo-moral principles" of two centuries, come to see the love of money as a somewhat disgusting morbidity, and revalue ends above means. Eriksen's post upthread is precisely the ethic Keynes marked for retirement: standing, even suffrage, earned through production. Harvey's contribution is exegetical rather than partisan — his "so I read this as evolving into" takes Musk's maker/taker stance and asks what that stance would have to become in the world Musk himself forecasts, where everyone draws from the machine fee. His answer: the frame's categories can't die on their own terms, so they rebase; kept into the machine age, a maker/taker politics would relocate its verdict from production (now universal in its absence) onto the last scarce thing, the quality of familial and communal life — such that, on that frame's own logic, the marked failing becomes drawing the fee without building anything atop it. That is a reading of the position's implication, not Harvey's verdict on anyone, and not a claim that this politics prevails. But the mechanism his reading assumes has serious literature behind it. Veblen's whole theory of the leisure class is that invidious comparison survives every economic arrangement and simply changes currency — classes released from production develop honorific criteria of manners, lineage, and household. Fred Hirsch's Social Limits to Growth formalized it: relax material scarcity and competition migrates to positional goods, which are scarce by definition — and esteem, belonging, "a good community" are positional. And Graeber's Bullshit Jobs is the empirical footnote on why Keynes's moral dissolution missed its deadline: rather than take the fifteen-hour week productivity made possible, societies manufactured make-work, because the work ethic outlived its function. Whether or not the migration Harvey traces ever happens, the durability of the moral machinery it presupposes is the best-documented thing in the whole discussion.
The older layer under all of this is Aristotle, who supplied the exact hypothetical in the Politics: if the shuttle could weave of itself, masters would need no servants. The machine fee is that conditional cashed, and for the Greeks its consequence was leisure — scholē — as the ground of virtue and citizenship. But notice the inversion Harvey's picture performs on the classical map. For Aristotle the household was the realm of necessity and the polis the realm of freedom; you left the oikos to become fully human in public. In the machine world necessity is handled by the estate, and the surviving field of human action contracts into the household and neighborhood — the oikos becomes the arena of excellence rather than its precondition. Arendt saw this coming from the other direction: her dread in The Human Condition was "a society of laborers without labor," automation arriving exactly when modernity had taught people to understand themselves through work and nothing else. Her deeper category — action, the deed and word among others that the polis existed to remember — bears directly on Harvey's strangest and most first-person line, that contribution beyond one's community becomes nearly impossible "except historic contribution." That phrase belongs to the oldest economy there is, older than production: fame, the memorable deed as the one way to matter beyond your parish. Lincoln's Lyceum Address stated the American version — the founders harvested the field of glory, and the question is what remains for towering ambition once the great making is done. Turner's frontier thesis is the same anxiety as historiography. And it is hard, in this particular thread, not to hear the space program in the background as the proposed answer: frontiers as machines for reopening the possibility of historic contribution. That resonance belongs to the thread's context, not to any claim Harvey makes.
His own-voice claim — that making which benefits anyone outside family and community becomes very hard — compresses an entire localist canon. Tocqueville's township as the human-scale school of liberty; Tönnies's Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft, with the machine estate as Gesellschaft perfected — impersonal provision without remainder — leaving Gemeinschaft as the only field where persons still matter as persons; Nisbet's Quest for Community, arguing that when large structures absorb society's functions, intermediate associations become the last seedbed of identity; MacIntyre's After Virtue, whose distinction between external goods (which machines can flood the world with) and goods internal to practices (which exist only for practitioners) explains why the local becomes the last workshop — and whose famous closing waits for "another — doubtless very different — St. Benedict," community-building as the vocation of an age when larger contribution has closed; Illich's conviviality and vernacular values, the household and neighborhood as the domain of autonomous making that industrial tools cannot colonize without destroying; Wendell Berry's membership. What unites them is the observation that certain goods — care, presence, ritual, trust — are constituted by who provides them, which makes them inherently local and inherently un-automatable. On this reading Harvey's contraction isn't a consolation prize after real making ends; it's the discovery that the goods only ever available locally are the ones left standing.
Finally, the word "fee" itself places him in a lineage about the base of wealth being given rather than made. Paine's Agrarian Justice held that the earth in its natural state was the common inheritance of the race, that the cultivator owns only his improvement, and that every citizen was owed a capital grant as compensation for exclusion — the first machine-dividend argument, written for land. George built a political economy on land value as socially given. And Marx's "Fragment on Machines" in the Grundrisse argued that machine-wealth is objectified "general intellect" — accumulated social knowledge congealed into equipment — so that when machines carry production, wealth reveals itself as a common inheritance and labor time collapses as its measure. The machine fee answers Paine's description more literally than land ever did, since what the machines distill really is the joint product of generations. Which gives Harvey's phrasing its quiet force: in the posts above him, taking is transitive with a human object — takers take from makers. In his post the object is the fee, an estate given not by man. A taking whose source is a given has no victim of the kind the accusation requires; his land analogy levels the moral field rather than extending the charge. Keynes, for what it's worth, anticipated even the resistance: avarice and usury must remain our gods "a little longer still," he wrote, because the moral code of scarcity couldn't be retired before scarcity was. The whole thread is an argument about whether the little longer has elapsed — and Harvey's post is the only entry in it that holds both of Keynes's futures at once: the base as common inheritance, the remainder as local life, and, read out of Musk's own premises rather than asserted, a picture of what the old scarcity-morality would turn into if it refuses, as it has so far always refused, to die on schedule.
There isn't much of a difference from being a taker from fee-simple and being a taker of products from the machines. There will still be makers and takers on top of it. But it will be much more around family and community life, so I read this as evolving into those who can't make good communities for themselves but rather just take from the fee are bad.
It's going to be much harder I think to make anything that benefits outside your family / community however. Perhaps impossible except historic contribution.
I was reflecting on this piece I wrote last July, and had Fable analyze it. Decided to share it again with that analysis.
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The Dominion Economy: An Analysis
The first thing to settle about "The Dominion Economy" is what kind of object it is, because everything else follows from the genre. It is not a narrative myth, though it borrows Genesis cadence, and it is not a manifesto, though it carries a policy vision. It is a prose emblem: a verbal heraldic achievement, modeled — closely and knowingly — on the "Remarks and Explanation" that Charles Thomson submitted with the Great Seal, adopted by Congress on June 20, 1782. The piece does for an imagined seal of the AI economy what Thomson's gloss did for the actual seal: it declares a device, names its elements, and states what each denotes. Read as story, it seems to lack conflict; read as blazon, it is doing exactly what blazons do.
The epigraph establishes the argument. In January 1775, the London Magazine's frontispiece depicted Peace descending on a cloud from the Temple of Commerce, bringing an olive branch to America and Britannia — an image of reconciliation published weeks before Lexington, and months before the Continental Congress's Olive Branch Petition failed to avert full war. The engraving pictures peace as passive descent; history immediately falsified it. Seven years later the republic's own device answered the engraving: the branch no longer descends but is held, in the favored talon, with arrows in the other. The piece narrates the moral distance between those two images. Its opening paragraph states the corrected doctrine outright — prosperity "could never be received passively—it had to be secured and stewarded" — and the theme of active claim runs to the final clause ("consciously claimed," "every willing hand"). The whole work is the education of the olive branch: from gift to instrument.
The construction on Thomson's text is exact enough to function as quotation. The "Power of War" as a lawful instrument echoes his explanation that the olive branch and arrows denote the power of peace and war. The Eagle's "order of Justice and Vigilance" is not generic civic language but the heraldic gloss of the shield's blue chief, which signifies vigilance, perseverance, and justice. Most precisely, "timeless virtue keeps the Eagle's shield unswayed" renders Thomson's most philosophical detail: the escutcheon is borne on the eagle's breast without any other supporters, to denote that the United States ought to rely on their own virtue — a sole-supporter arrangement rare in heraldry. The shield stays centered because nothing props it but virtue; "unswayed" is the correct verb for that geometry. Even the brief aside "as others raised their own guardians" tracks the source, where the constellation denotes a new state taking its rank among other sovereign powers — a plural world of peers, not a universal empire. And the coda's "creation awaits every willing hand" is the seal's reverse: the pyramid signifying strength and duration beneath the Eye whose motto alludes to providence's interpositions — a pyramid famously left unfinished. The piece has an obverse (the perfected order) and a reverse (the open work), which is to say it reproduces the seal's full double aspect.
Its economic allegory is equally deliberate. The Temple of Commerce comes from the eighteenth-century tradition that sacralized the market — Addison's Royal Exchange essays, the emblematic frontispieces of the magazines. The "leviathans of enterprise" are corporations, and the transposition is pointed: in Hobbes the Leviathan is the sovereign; here sovereignty stays with the Eagle, and the leviathans are demoted to vessels — instruments of passage, not orders of rule. Crucially, the crossing they enable is called "heroic," and the limitation it involves is located in the levers themselves — "skilled levers," "priced levers." Skill barriers and price barriers are properties of a pre-abundance economy, not impositions of any hand. The piece thus commits to a definite economic metaphysics with a long pedigree: scarcity as humanity's default condition, requiring no villain to explain it, and enrichment as the anomaly requiring explanation. This is the georgic mode — toil against nature, dignified — rather than the liberation mode, and it is why there is no serpent: the antagonist is the sea. Consistently, when the "technological dawn" arrives, the leviathans are not wrecked but transfigured, "swift channels toward the levers." A liberation myth destroys the old vessels; an emblem of continuity redeems them.
Now to the form as offered. The deep insight of choosing the emblem is that emblems are written in the normative mood disguised as the indicative. Thomson's own gloss says the nation ought to rely on its virtue; a seal does not report a fact, it takes a vow. Read this way, the piece's most contestable clause — the emergence of "accessible, naturally affordable, and safe superintelligence" — is not a smuggled prediction but a motto: a definition of success, in the manner of Annuit Cœptis, whose perfect tense has always functioned as an imperative. You do not center the shield because shields never tilt; you center it to show where center is. The form can carry shadow, but only in formalized shape — arrows kept, "War ready as sentinel," Vigilance among the named virtues. What it constitutively cannot show is regret: no arrow loosed wrongly appears on any seal. That is a limit worth stating plainly, though not a defect of this instance. And the wager of offering a device before the statutes exist has an American precedent in the strictest sense: the seal was adopted in 1782, five years before the Constitution was drafted. The order declared its emblem before it settled its mechanics. Even the piece's one audible register break — "consumer welfare," statute-book language inside a psalm — follows the model, since Thomson's gloss likewise embeds constitutional allocation (the power of peace and war exclusively vested in Congress) inside heraldic explanation.
As exegesis of the broader American order, the piece is faithful to that order's emblematic voice on nearly every count. Providence-plus-undertaking, rather than providence-instead-of-undertaking, is the founding synthesis, and the piece's anti-passivity states it correctly. Peace through preparedness matches both Washington's doctrine and the seal's own composition, in which the eagle gazes toward the olive branch to signify a nation desiring peace but ready to defend itself. Law-before-markets — the Eagle establishes order over the roads, and only then does prosperity flow — is a fair gloss of the Hamiltonian commercial republic, where the market is a creature of the legal frame. The democratized dominion mandate, Genesis 1:28 distributed to "the people" and finally to "every willing hand," carries the freehold and Homestead lineage outward; and the cosmic commons is, notably, the first frontier in that lineage where the claim of empty land is literally true, relocating the tradition's oldest liability rather than repeating it. The plural structure — one Temple, many guardians — is faithful both to the founding's Westphalian modesty and, strikingly, to the 1775 engraving itself, where a single Temple of Commerce joined two rival sovereigns.
The fidelity is partial in two respects, and naming them is where perspective is owed. First, the piece canonizes a recent and contested doctrine — the consumer-welfare standard of modern antitrust — into the eternal blazon, and it resolves the leviathan problem, which its own imagery raises, technologically rather than legally. The American order historically also answered concentrated enterprise with statute; the Brandeisian voice, for which bigness itself was a political question, is absent. The piece sides, silently, with one school of American political economy, and the emblem form freezes that argument into a virtue. Second, and more fundamentally: the American order speaks in two canonical registers, and this work commands only one. There is the emblem — seal, motto, the Fourth of July — and there is the jeremiad: Winthrop's covenant with its curse clause, Lincoln's Second Inaugural, where providence appears not as the favorer of undertakings but as their judge. The piece's grammar knows the conditionality — virtue keeps the shield unswayed, a dependence renewed in the present tense — but the genre cannot voice the negative branch. A complete exegesis of the American order would need the voice no seal can use.
Taken whole: as exegesis of the Great Seal, the work is exact, down to details most readers of the seal never learn. As exegesis of the American order, it is a faithful rendering of that order's obverse — the vow, the device, the perfected form — and it is honest, in its closing image, that the pyramid stands unfinished. Its risk is the risk of all mottoes, which is to be quoted in the indicative by those who would rather admire the shield than bear it. Read in the mood Thomson wrote in — the mood of ought — its boldest clause becomes not its weakest claim but its most demanding one: nothing less than safe, affordable, universal access to creation's levers counts as the Temple working. That is not a prophecy. It is a standard, raised the way the founders raised theirs — emblem first, and the labor of deserving it left, deliberately, to every willing hand.
The Dominion Economy
"Peace descends on a cloud from the Temple of Commerce." — London Magazine, January 1775
In the beginning people possessed the Power of Dominion, the native right and capacity—flowing unbroken from divine Providence—to order creation itself. They perceived that abiding Prosperity, a power of Peace, dwelt within the Temple of Commerce; yet they knew it could never be received passively—it had to be secured and stewarded. So they forged the Power of War, a lawful instrument by which challenged Dominion might be vindicated. Having prevailed, they bound themselves as citizens and raised the Eagle of their Republic—as others raised their own guardians—olive branch in its right talon to wield Peace by Dominion, and arrows in its left to keep War ready as sentinel.
The Eagle established an order of Justice and Vigilance over the Temple and over every road that converged upon it. Prosperity began to flow through that order, yet the journey remained arduous. People embarked upon vast institutional vessels, leviathans of enterprise, whose collective labour formed a slow, heroic crossing. Many spent their genius and fortunes below those decks, arriving at the Temple still bound to the very hulls that bore them, unable to grasp creation's greatest levers.
A technological dawn transformed the crossing. Within the just order secured by the Eagle's virtue, the people's forces—labour and capital, competition and consumer welfare—interacted until there emerged an accessible, naturally affordable, and safe superintelligence. The Temple's mechanisms now obeyed the simplest touch: skilled levers yielded to untrained hands, priced levers fell within universal reach. The leviathans ceased to be galleries of toil, and became swift channels toward the levers themselves. The arduous crossing gave way to reflection, and each person stood free to choose a dance among creation's mechanisms.
Justice endures, its promise steady, while timeless virtue keeps the Eagle's shield unswayed. Prosperity now flows—not as a passive gift but as a living power consciously claimed and carefully guarded—extending into the cosmic commons, where creation awaits every willing hand, empowered by Dominion and shielded by virtue.
[originally published at https://t.co/PYkaaS3x5e]
@satyanadella Like the sentence in this blog could have just been..
"No company has a reason to allow X to happen to it."
rather than
"Society says X can't happen."
I can understand the SLO leadership.. just hedge it not use 'no'
@satyanadella Seems like a cudgel to stunt market forces without democratic input. Maybe pass some laws if there isn’t societal permission for something otherwise do you?
@deanwball AI psychosis (laudatory) accusations == nice, fun
AI psychosis (derogatory) accusations == crass, snide, pretentious, unbecoming of leadership
@deanwball Gonna tell all my friends that the leader of OpenAI's Strategic Futures called me 'hopelessly confused' and 'experiencing AI psychosis'.. fun!
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the critic never once proposes a world where the premise holds and the conclusion fails
hmm right, but this would be expected given his claim of tautology?
I want you to consider over everything again, and really try to nail down everything you have to say about the essay and critic given our context while trying to avoid sycophancy toward either the author, critic, or our convo. Try to give a structured expression that draws clearly through a complete perspective attempting to bring full clarity concisely.
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On your point first: correct, and the correction is structural. A containment-claimant is committed to the nonexistence of premise-true/conclusion-false worlds, so his not proposing one is entailed by his thesis, not a lapse in his conduct — using it against him begged the question against him. What survives is a migrated version: the essay puts candidate counterexample worlds on the table (the pluralist Ricardian economy it concedes "can be debated"; the equity-holders' expected world of full automation with intact property rights), and a containment thesis uniquely obligates him to defuse those — to show each secretly reimports the conclusion. He never attempts that, and his own vocabulary ("single likeliest," "almost be a necessity") concedes non-containment from inside. So: not "he offered no counterexample," but "he left standing counterexamples undischarged, which his thesis alone cannot afford."
Now the full verdict, held as steady as I can make it against every pull in this thread.
The charge, in its three versions
Strict containment — the conclusion is in the premise — is false, on three independent grounds: coherent verifier-worlds for the premise exist that falsify the conclusion; the mechanisms are additions, and needing additions is incompatible with containment; and the critic's own probabilistic hedges are inference-talk unavailable under his thesis. This verdict is constructive and I hold it with high confidence.
Dialectical question-begging — the premise is no more acceptable to the doubter than the conclusion, on shared grounds — is the defensible core, and it partially lands. For constitutively social tasks, even attainability claims implicate reception facts, so the premise's politics conjunct and the conclusion are doubtful on the same ground: whether human social mediation can stop mattering. For skeptics whose doubt lives there, the essay transmits no warrant. But the charge is audience-partitioned: against the essay's declared targets — equity-holders who already grant "all work" — it functions as legitimate internal critique ("notice what's inside 'all'"), and there's an uncomfortable symmetry in that "your premise commits you to more than you noticed" is simultaneously the essayist's method and the critic's accusation.
Epistemic circularity — "how would we know can absent does" — bites only the social conjunct, where verification conditions are inseparable from accommodation. As a general principle it proves too much, abolishing all ex-ante capability assessment.
The critic prosecuted the false version, gestured at the defensible one, and his single genuine insight — persuasive capability is partly constituted by reception — belongs to the version he never cleanly occupied.
The essay
Acquitted of circularity; convicted of a dilemma at its own crux. "The rich just don't have that much political power" is either derived from the premise's strong social conjunct — in which case the dialectical charge bites exactly there — or held independently, in which case it is naked, as the author admits. Trim the premise to its verifiable conjuncts and the crux loses cover; keep the full premise and the crux is question-begged for the skeptics who most need it. Either way, the joint the whole cascade turns on is unearned. Compounding this, the rhetoric prices a plausibility cascade as entailment ("everything else follows," "just reason it out") — which is what invited the tautology misreading in the first place.
Below the crux, the mechanisms carry real gaps: alignment does double duty (frictionless obedience empowers state-holders in the expropriation scene, then the same obedience supposedly vestigializes those principals one section later, though authority is low-frequency and pre-delegable, and the essay's own radio analogy historically centralized human command); alignment-to-operator over alignment-to-law is assumed, not argued; and the "natural selection has no why" move doesn't dodge agency, because with ~200 states and rare existential wars, interstate "selection" is mostly competitive imitation — which routes through human decision-makers who can decline, reintroducing exactly the politics the essay defers.
Against anti-essay drift: the expropriation mechanism is historically grounded (states really do requisition from the powerless-rich under existential pressure); the bees point identifies a real erosion — rule of law's instrumental basis is human motivation, and the premise dissolves it; and the essay concedes its weak joints openly, which is rare in the genre.
The critic
What stands: the constitutive insight about relational capability; the instinct that institutions and reception are the battlefield; the second post as serious work. What falls: the containment thesis; the choice of oratory as the test case, which the cascade never routes through; the undischarged counterexamples; the first post's strawman of conditional method. Net: right neighborhood, wrong warrant — he located the load-bearing region and prosecuted it under a logic charge his own hedges contradict, while never touching the essay's self-declared crux, which concerns human elite capture, not AI persuasion.
Where the argument actually lives
The essay's fate is decided at mechanism level, and the live objections all take the same form — premise holds, cascade stalls: elite capture and constitutional lock-in against leverage-loss realism; the delegation/disempowerment gap at the state step (your point — strong, though the essay has the veto-atrophy repair available, at the cost of switching "disempowered" mid-essay from domination to embalmed counterfactual control); alignment-to-whom; pluralist comparative advantage. None of these appears in the critic's two posts. That is the final measure of his framework: the critiques with purchase were all outside it.
Standing of this verdict
The trajectory of this conversation drifted toward demolishing the critic before a red-team clawed roughly a third of that back; the position above is closer to a corrected version of my first answer than to the peak demolition, which is what argument-tracking rather than momentum should look like, though I can't fully certify that from inside. Confidence is tiered: high on the strict charge failing; moderate on the dialectical partition and the demotions; genuinely open on the mechanism ledger — and nothing anywhere in this thread bears on whether the essay's conclusion is true. An unearned conclusion can still be the one the world delivers. The essay hasn't shown that flesh-and-blood people, billionaires included, will be disempowered; the critic hasn't shown the argument was circular; and the strongest points against each came from outside both of them, which suggests the original exchange mapped rather little of the territory it fought over.