In Romans chapter 8, Paul wrote about how the law made sin understood as sin and (7:10) …”the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.”
He then goes on to talk about how that which he would do he does not do and what he would not do he does do.
Then suddenly, in 8:3, he says
“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh…”
The law is good and holy but it has an absolutely fatal flaw: it has to be worked by US - the flesh. It can never do what it was designed to do because it totally relies on us to operate it.
It’s not just that we can’t follow the law, it’s that the law can NEVER work because the interface (us) is permanently flawed. The whole system is unworkable because it is made up of two utterly incompatible parts.
He goes on to say “God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful FLESH…” ( the utterly incompatible part)…”and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8.4 That the righteousness of the law…” (the holy part of the equation)…”might be fulfilled in us - who walk NOT after the flesh, but after the spirit.”
The connection for me is not just “hey, Jesus paid the price for my failure to fulfill the law” (which He DID ) but that the whole thing was never ever going to function without HIM.
In other words, HE became the entire thing and there was no way it would have worked otherwise. Ever. Under any circumstance.
Being committed to obedience to the law, even while loving Christ, and beleiving that commitment has ANYTHING to do with salvation places you right back into the middle of the hopeless system.
Christ is EVERYTHING. He is the only way it could have ever worked.
Put your faith in HIM and absolutely nothing else. He already fixed the fatal flaw forever. Simply accept that powerfully simple idea.
This is a fair point for sure.
I read the parable to say that the virgins are in two different groups, the ones who wanted to go to a party and the ones who wanted to attend a wedding.
The oil is the Holy Spirit. The party group got dressed said “yeah yeah yeah, we’re ready to party ” and they were ready… outwardly. They looked good when they arrived and no one could tell the difference.
Some Christians go to church every Sunday and Wednesday night and say all the right things to all the right people and love being there. They look good.
The actual wedding attendees, said “the wedding is so important to us , we are committed and will stay the night if we have to”. They didn’t just have the show oil, they had the reserve oil which showed they had prepared - in their hearts.
These are the Christians who truly place their faith in Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to work in them.
Notice that BOTH groups fell asleep.
The true attendees didn’t run around all night doing things to get ready. They weren’t working for it, they were just fully ready in their hearts. But they too, fell asleep.
Falling asleep wasn’t the issue at all.
The group that entered the wedding didn’t just have the lamp with half-hearted public view virtue signaling prep, they had the full measure of the Holy Spirit’s heart changing power.
Anyway, my two cents worth.
Your point is well taken and I pray Christ will always work in my heart because I am too human to meet the standard the law sets for us. Thank God HE took care of that.
There is no power in prayer but there is power in God and Christ to whom we appeal in prayer.
Having a ministry that focuses attention on and prayer for those that need it is worthwhile ministry for sure.
God is interested in us praying and praying for others. He will answer in His time, however one immediate benefit of prayer is simply knowing that someone is praying for us.
A ministry that provides that kind of comfort to people is a great thing and will be blessed by God.
My take on Jesus’ statement in Luke is that he was referring to the ongoing vindication of His people by God. This is a basis for faith in Him and we know that it is this faith that saves us through Christ.
Many teachers today are directing people away from grace and toward a more legalistic view of salvation.
When Jesus asks if He will find faith when He returns, I believe He may be referring to finding people not trusting in the “vindication” of God but rather trusting in themselves.
I then connect this to the tribulation because it may indicate that people who think they are saved and will therefore be taken out of the way of tribulation might be surprised that they are not actually in Christ but under the law by their own choice.
It is interpretive on my part , but I think it’s a legitimate possibility based on the language concerning Christ’s return.
Thanks for restating that.
My original response indicated the idea was interpretive; meaning it is not directly stated. Your point is not invalid by any means.
However, I find it interesting that verse 10 uses the phrase “they that dwell upon the earth”.
That can be read as poetic phrasing or a broader statement of global awareness.
IF it is the latter , it is fair to consider how that global awareness is achieved. I can imagine early readers asking themselves how is it possible that “those that dwell on the earth” could possibly know this given the way news travelled in that time.
Again, speculative but not out of line to consider a bit of our modern reality would be communicated to John. I thought @TheExBeliever might find it interesting.
I read Proverbs 25:2 in such a way as to support considering ideas that might sit just behind the text when those considerations don’t interfere with established truths.
Anyway, thanks again.
Christian brothers and sisters, when you discuss or debate with someone, don’t turn to insults or mockery in your disagreement.
Continue to show scripture as the basis for your position, be forceful intellectually but not mean-spirited toward anyone.
Don’t be weak and agreeable for the sake of agreeability, stand your ground in love and counsel and differentiate between matters of key doctrine and areas where some interpretive leeway is supportable without harm.
You know, I was interested in your point of view until you got to “try again”.
This was a friendly intellectual discussion properly framed with valid thoughts worthy of discussion.
I don’t understand why that suddenly needs to turn to an insult. It’s beneath an otherwise obviously intelligent person.
Anyway, God bless.
@Methodist_Prime Great question.
At what point are we to be considered holy? What level or standard of achievement is necessary to hit that mark? What are the consequences if we don’t reach the required level?
Hi Brian. Here’s a thought that I hope encourages you:
It’s not a sin to be afraid and have anxiety. It’s not a sign of a lack of faith.
The true measure of your faith is who do you run to when you need more help than a human can give you? Based on your posts, it’s pretty clear to me.
A soldier on the battlefield who is deathly afraid is not a coward. A coward runs from his fear to protect himself at the expense of others. A soldier quaking on his boots and standing his ground anyway is a hero.
We all deal with anxiety and issues. Some greater than others. The key is to continue to seek God in all things and ask Him for His strength to stand your ground. That is faith. Feel the fear and do it anyway.
Consider the following things God has said about Himself:
• I am the LORD who heals you — Exodus 15:26
“I am the LORD who heals you” (Jehovah-Rapha). Spoken after the bitter waters at Marah were made sweet.
• I am the LORD who sanctifies you — Leviticus 20:8 (also Exodus 31:13)
“I am the LORD who sanctifies you” (Jehovah-M’Kaddesh).
• I am your shield — Genesis 15:1 God to Abraham: “I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.”
• I am God Almighty — Genesis 17:1
“I am God Almighty [El Shaddai]; walk before Me and be blameless.”
• I will strengthen you — Isaiah 41:10
“Fear not, for I am with you… I am your God; I will strengthen you, yes, I will help you.”
These (and others) are the points of contact where anyone can meet God based on their needs in that moment.
Reaching through the veil of our circumstances and holding on to any one of these attributes constitutes faith and connects us to Him through Christ.
Powerful stuff for all of us .
God bless you
@Emmgyofficial@purebloodrebell Personally, I think that’s because so many Christians have been led back to believing they must follow the law to be justified which is not what Christ came to achieve for us and not what the New Testament teaches.
@Ernest1588761 This is a fair question. I tend to agree with those who say the pyramids simply were not relevant to the story being told.
However, I happen to find Isaiah 19:19 extremely interesting and you may as well.
I always find it interesting that atheists seem to be very angry with a being they say doesn’t exist.
If it’s all just nonsense, why get so upset about it? If I’m spouting stupidity, how is that affecting you? It’s not.
Yet, they want to argue and do their best to attack you and mock you for a belief you hold that isn’t impacting them on any level.
On its face, it makes zero sense and always makes me question who they are really trying to convince.
“The fool says in his heart there is no God”. In his heart - because his head knows the truth and he doesn’t want to acknowledge it.
Anyway, may God bless them and continue to call to them and may they come to know how deeply they are loved.
If you’re citing this is evidence of a post tribulation timeline, I would point to the idea of the witnesses who remain and those who come to faith after the church is removed.
The removal is not the end for being saved but those folks will deal with things other won’t- including death for refusing the mark as one example.
I see that the language is powerful and the point is not invalid but the fact that others will lose their life as did earlier Christians allows me to retain my view of a pre-trib removal of the Church.
I think this is taken out of context.
Read verse 18 then move into 19 and beyond. I think the distinction between those in the spirit and those in the flesh is clear.
Rather than committing Christians to following the law for salvation (the antithesis of Paul’s message) I think this passage underscores the absolute need for Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us.
God bless you.
I hear you. If she wanted to have children and he did not, it is unfair of him to unilaterally end that possibility for both.
No one can judge him as we don’t know him but I think the wife has a very legitimate complaint here.
I would recommend seeking lots of counsel before making any permanent decision but I can absolutely see why she would feel wronged.
This needs a lot of prayer and patience.
@joshwhitlatch You are spot on.
Because something is a part of the Christian life or experience does not make it required for salvation.
Doing good and following Christ helps us represent Him better and moves the world toward the kind of place it might be.
@cd4774 I grew up with teachers that said they didn’t know exactly when but that it would definitely happen at a time when the greatest number of people said it wouldn’t.
That stuck with me and now I see that sentiment growing and growing among many including professing Christians.