Ryguy

“Our unalterable resolution should be to be free.” —Sam Adams

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

And if they actually do meet those guidelines from Matthew then what? Would you just tell them they aren’t Christian and are going to hell?

I would love for you provide a definition of what a false Christ is according to the Bible. Can you do that so we are clear? Then please explain what is stopping a false Christ from asserting those very same verses and claiming they meet those very things according to what Jesus said about them.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

You are presenting the theological positions you hold, and you are welcome to believe them, but the Bible never explicitly makes the statements you are making. You are reading passages I the Bible and then adding your interpretation to them.

I disagree with your interpretation of the biblical text, and you disagree with mine. That’s fine, but you haven’t objectively shown who is right, and who is wrong, based on the biblical text.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

It’s crazy how many so called Christian’s will openly mock and condemn the power of God to provide a direct witness through the Holy Ghost in our day. They don’t believe it. They’ll believe a PhD and a pile of rocks in the desert before they even consider to believe in the power of God…

A fulfillment of this passage in 2 Nephi 9.

O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not… But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

It tells me nothing really. Other than that according to your interpretation, I will never find that in the Bible.

My question to you is, so what? I don’t believe everything God ever spoke or did is contained in the Bible. And the Bible doesn’t ever make that claim about itself, so what does that tell you?

John 20:30 and 21:25 make it very clear that there is a lot that Jesus did and taught that are not in the Bible. I mean he was alive for 30+ years. Are you bold enough to claim that 99.9% of the things Jesus taught and did were not important because they aren’t in the Bible which Jesus neither compiled or wrote???

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

I told you I couldn’t understand it for you. I’m skirting around nothing bud.

Let me respond in a Q&A format so it’s easier for you to read and understand.

Q: And JW's say that Michael the Archangel is Jesus. So tell me, is that true? Is Michael the Archangel Jesus, the true Christ? Or are they following after a false Christ? Because it's one or the other.

A: I said Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael, but in the Bible, Jesus never explicitly taught that getting the identity of Michael wrong is the test for whether someone is following the true Christ. I’ll add that I don’t believe Michael the archangel is Jesus, the true Christ, and I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness, so the answer to your 3 questions is I disagree with Jehovah’s Witnesses and can comfortably say no, I don’t believe they have the interpretation of who Christ is in the Bible, but that depends on how you interpret the Biblical text.

Jehovah’s Witnesses would disagree with me, and they would probably quote 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as their prooftext that they are correct and I am wrong. Yes, I’ve talked to them before.

The point I was making is that you have your interpretation of scripture, along with everyone else who reads the Bible. Who is right and who is wrong? Please tell me which church has it all right?

I’ll repeat something else I said:

Jesus warned that false Christs and false prophets would come, but He never taught that competing religious claims prove who is correct and who is false. Instead, He gave guidelines such as: Matthew 7:16 “Ye shall know them by their fruits”, Matthew 7:21 “he that doeth the will of my Father”, and John 7:17 “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God”.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@davidHenkel20 Do you think what you said in your OP and in your replies to me is right on the mark?

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

Your reply really doesn’t address the point I made, and 1 Corinthians 6:19 actually supports part of it.

Paul says that the believer’s body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. That establishes that the physical body has theological significance. It doesn’t establish that a disembodied spirit can experience everything that an embodied resurrected person, such as Jesus Christ, can.

D&C 93 doesn’t say that the Holy Spirit is imperfect. You are objecting to something I never claimed, and you are reading that into the passage instead of responding to what it actually says.

The actual question is whether Scripture teaches that resurrected, embodied existence is the intended fullness of human existence. The New Testament places enormous emphasis on the resurrection of the body, including Christ’s own physical resurrection.

So if you disagree with D&C 93, that’s fine, but you need to actually address what it says rather than refuting a position it doesn’t teach.

Also, tabernacle and temple are sometimes used synonymously in scripture to refer to the physical body. For example, Peter calls his mortal body a tabernacle in 2 Peter 1:13-14. So unless you are saying that Peter wasn’t a “true believer” who had the spirit, you might want to stop misrepresenting what I believe, which is Biblical, and start studying your Bible.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

I can invite you to read what Jesus actually said in the Bible, but I can’t understand it for you.

You are right that Jesus warned that false Christs and false prophets would come, but He never taught that competing religious claims prove who is correct and who is false. Instead, He gave guidelines such as: Matthew 7:16 “Ye shall know them by their fruits”, Matthew 7:21 “he that doeth the will of my Father”, and John 7:17 “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God”.

The fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses make exclusive truth claims doesn’t establish that the LDS Church is false any more than the existence of competing claims establishes that Christianity itself is false….

Protestantism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy have entered the chat and they disagree with each other on some really important doctrines, including who has the authority to act in the name of God on earth. So which one is preaching the true Christ? All? None? Their competing claims don’t answer the question.

If we are going to stick to what Jesus said in the Bible, the claims made by any Christian group or church have to be examined on their merits, rather than dismissed as teaching a false gospel and a false Christ simply because you disagree with what they claim.

And by the way, your Michael example doesn’t actually establish the conclusion either. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael, but in the Bible, Jesus never explicitly taught that getting the identity of Michael wrong is the test for whether someone is following the true Christ. If that’s the test, show where Jesus gave it.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@RonDuncan7 @thatchapfella That’s not all Jesus said, gotta keep reading.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@pricekris2005

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@grok @ScottRoberts @grok is that conclusion explicitly stated in those verses or any other passage in the biblical text? In other words, does the biblical text define and establish the canon and close it? Or is that the interpretation of those verses held by historical Christianity?

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@ScottRoberts @grok is this historically accurate? Are there any books that the Bible mentions that are not contained in it? And do we know that the Bible contains all of Gods written words given throughout time? Share your sources

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@grok @ScottRoberts @grok If additional writings from the apostles, or Jesus himself were discovered, could they be added to the canon? Or must they be rejected?

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

I agree with that statement, when considering the context of what Isaiah is talking about which is formed Gods as the text states, not eternal and uncreated Gods such as Jesus Christ and The Father.

I also agree with John 20

Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!” (which means Teacher). Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

I agree with that statement, when considering the context of what Isaiah is talking about which is formed Gods as the text states, not eternal and uncreated Gods such as Jesus Christ and The Father.

I also agree with John 20

Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!” (which means Teacher). Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

@hollslo @ThoughtfulSaint The New Testament never claims it contains everything God has ever revealed to man.

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

Are you an atheist?

Is this fan fiction?

“And moreover, I say unto you, that there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.” - Mosiah 3:17

How about this?

“And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.”
-Helaman 5:12

How about this?

“And now, I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you forever. Amen.” -Ether 12:41

How about the other hundreds of statements just like these in the Book of Mormon that align directly with the Biblical witness and testimony of Jesus Christ? Is it all just fan fiction?

[Ryguy @ryguy_283]

Careful saying this, because you are objective proven a liar by what the Book of Mormon explicitly says.

To quote 2 Nephi 31:21
“And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”

We do not accept the trinitarian definition of God or the formulation of the hypostatic union, as those definitions and formulations are not explicitly taught in any passage of scripture in the Bible or the Book of Mormon. They are definitions and formulations that attempt to piece together different statements from scripture such as Isaiah 43:10, and John 1:1, both of which, I have no problem accepting.