🤷🏼‍♂️

“very unusual and impressive” he/him

[Y @tinscognito__]

@Bd_irB_ll stick to “co ownership” and “Parma sign Nakata for 55 billion lire”

[Cheeses Of Nazareth @OhCheesesChrist]

The Fans Forums have spoken. And it's a bit of a read:

In acknowledging an email to us earlier today from the Club, the Fans Forum is writing to express our deep concern about the large number of fans who have, in recent days, received club sanctions as a result of analysis flagging suspicious activity patterns relating to their accounts.

We would like to initiate a proper discussion with the club but we need to do that with cool heads, to give it the consideration required. For that reason we are asking the club to pause any further issuance of new suspensions and hold off cancelling any season tickets to allow that discussion to happen without pressure growing further on fan representatives. Reps have been receiving messages of concern and anger - meanwhile criticism on social media is building and doing damage.

The Fans' Forum fully supports the Club's objective of tackling ticket touting, organised abuse of the ticketing system and the use of automated purchasing technology. Genuine supporters are among the biggest victims of these practices, and robust action against professional touting has widespread support across the fanbase.

However, where genuine supporters perceive that obtaining tickets through official channels has become increasingly difficult, some may adopt behaviours which, whilst not motivated by profit or commercial gain, nevertheless attract scrutiny. It is therefore essential that enforcement activity distinguishes clearly between genuine supporters trying to obtain tickets for their own and friends use and those engaged in organised commercial abuse of the system. We should focus on improving the systems and processes that drive supporter behaviour, rather than penalising genuine fans acting in good faith. We are increasingly concerned that the current approach risks causing significant unintended consequences. If measures designed to protect genuine supporters instead result in long-standing Season Ticket Holders feeling unfairly targeted, the Club risks doing more damage to supporter trust than the abuse it is seeking to prevent.

There is already a widespread perception among many Season Ticket Holders that they are facing an increasing number of restrictions, policy changes and sanctions. Over recent seasons this has included price increases, changes to ticketing policies and tougher enforcement measures. Relationships between the Club and supporters had begun to improve after what has been a difficult period, but these latest actions risk reversing that progress.

As supporter representatives, this is particularly concerning. We are regularly asked to explain and defend changes where we believe they are justified and in supporters' interests. That becomes extremely difficult if loyal supporters believe they are being treated as suspects rather than valued supporters. The level of frustration we are hearing is growing rapidly and should not be underestimated.

We therefore ask the Club to consider the following principles:-

1.⁠ ⁠Investigations must not become convictions

The use of sophisticated analytics to identify suspicious behaviour is entirely sensible. However, such systems should identify accounts requiring further investigation rather than providing sufficient evidence, by themselves, to justify sanctions.Suspicion should trigger investigation; it should not constitute proof.

2.⁠ ⁠Different standards should apply to Member accounts and Season Ticket Holders

We understand from the club that the scale of abuse involving “disposable” Member accounts managed by touts is substantial and may justify a lower threshold for initiating investigations.

However, Season Ticket Holders represent a very different category. Their identities have already been verified, many have held tickets for decades and have established histories with the Club. The cancellation of a Season Ticket can represent the loss of a relationship with the Club and friends built over decades and often spanning multiple generations of the same family. Where sanctions of this severity are contemplated, the evidential standard should reflect the seriousness and permanence of the consequences.

We do not believe behavioural analysis alone should ever be regarded as sufficient evidence to sanction a Season Ticket Holder. It must be based on actual evidence of wrongdoing - especially where the ultimate sanction of cancellation of a season ticket is to be applied.

3.⁠ ⁠Supporters must be able to understand the case against them

We appreciate the Club's reluctance to disclose detection methods which could undermine future investigations.However, there is an important distinction between intelligence and evidence.

If information cannot be disclosed because it would compromise investigative techniques, then it should be used as intelligence to trigger enquiries, not as evidence to determine guilt. A supporter cannot reasonably defend themselves or make an informed appeal without understanding the substance of the allegation against them.

Fundamental fairness requires that supporters know enough about the evidence relied upon to respond meaningfully.Supporters should have access to a fair and genuinely independent appeal process. Where sanctions are imposed, supporters should be given sufficient information to understand the allegations, provide an explanation and submit relevant evidence. An appeal process cannot command confidence if supporters are unable to understand the basis upon which decisions have been reached.

4.⁠ ⁠Club systems can influence supporter behaviour

We continue to believe that aspects of the current away ticket returns process unintentionally encourage behaviour which many supporters perceive as necessary if they are to have any realistic chance of obtaining returned tickets.

Supporters know that others are monitoring the system continuously and therefore feel compelled to do likewise. In most cases, this is not driven by commercial gain but by extraordinary commitment and determination to follow the team.If the Club believes these behaviours are undesirable, the long-term solution is to improve the design of the ticketing system so that supporters no longer feel they must compete in this way.

Good system design is generally more effective than increasingly punitive enforcement.

5.⁠ ⁠Touting should be clearly defined

There should be a clear distinction between professional ticket touting and other breaches of ticketing policy.

For most supporters, "touting" means repeated or organised resale for financial gain above face value. In our discussions and in communications to supporters (and indeed rules) we have to adopt the definition which is commonly understood by fans otherwise we are talking about different things.

Professional touting activity deserves the strongest sanctions and enjoys broad support for firm enforcement.

Conflating it with other forms of ticket misuse risks undermining confidence in the disciplinary process and reducing public support for action against genuine touts.

6.⁠ ⁠Sanctions should be proportionate

For breaches which do not involve professional touting or fraud, the default response should normally be education and a warning for a first offence.The Club should also consider whether aspects of its own ticketing systems may have contributed to the behaviour before determining an appropriate sanction.

We should manage fan behaviour by education and by optimising systems not by applying sanctions which do huge damage to club-fan relations and create massive resentment undermining all the good work we do together.

7.⁠ ⁠Sharing of account login credentials

Sharing of log in details with trusted friends and family is common and should not be an offence. If the club disagrees then we should have a proper debate on this point and review the rules and communications after that debate has concluded but not apply any rule changes (or contested interpretation of existing rules) retrospectively.

We know many fans (including, no doubt members of the FF) do this to help manage accounts for friends and family - for example when applying as larger groups for away games. This should not be outlawed.

8.⁠ ⁠Finally, reassure supporters regarding the future of Season Tickets

There is an increasing belief among supporters that recent policy changes and tougher enforcement are being driven, at least in part, by a desire to reduce the number of Season Ticket Holders in favour of higher-yield ticket sales.Whether or not this perception is correct, it is becoming increasingly widespread and is damaging confidence.

We therefore ask the Club to provide reassurance by confirming:

the current number of Season Ticket Holders;
that the Club is not pursuing a policy of reducing Season Ticket numbers; and
that Season Tickets surrendered or withdrawn will continue to be reallocated as Season Tickets rather than converted into Member or other ticket categories.
The Club and supporters share the same objective: ensuring tickets are used fairly by genuine fans. Achieving that objective requires not only effective enforcement but also confidence that investigations are fair, proportionate and transparent. Maintaining the trust of loyal Season Ticket Holders is essential if the Club is to retain the goodwill and support of our fanbase. Nowhere does this apply more than our away following and we should not be doing anything to damage what is considered the best away support in the league. That enviable support has been built on a sense of camaraderie, community and a culture involving fan networks and ticket sharing over decades.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

the bans are a disgrace but as far as I can see on here you’ve not done anything so far on the topic other than RT explainers.

You’re the largest independent fan group, you’ve got the chance to organise and mobilise. Start there.

[TRA - The Red Army (MUFC) @TraMufc]

Reds on here bleating about England's tactics when time-served Utd fans are getting bans slapped on them for fuck all and the billionaire is preparing to bulldoze Old Trafford so him & his cronies can mop up on building contracts.
No wonder we're fucked.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

“Sell the midget because he held up a banner”

Get a fucking grip lads.

[Jamie @ArcheryContest]

Remember when Declan Rice hugged Thomas Partey

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

@danstapleton89 thought there were huge similarities tonight tbh. Both terrified to make a genuinely positive change.

[TheSecretScout @TheSecretScout_]

Thomas Tuchel on England's Euro 2024 campaign 👀

"They were more afraid to drop out of the tournament than having the excitement and hunger to win it" 👀

[Manchester United @ManUtd]

On the comeback trail.

Wishing you all the best with your recovery, @ManuUgarte8 — we'll be with you every step of the way 🙏❤️

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

Ruben Amorim levels of cowardice from Tuchel here tonight.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

@janhopi I more meant between them scoring the second and kicking off again. Why did he leave it until the game had restarted?

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

did he not make a single sub then, or did I miss it?

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

if Carrick has anything about him, he’d launch a frisbee deep into the woods for Dalot to chase and bring Djed Spence in.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

that is fucking sensational

[Agent 4ft 7” @nathersjones]

They’re gonna give him one of those perfect days you give your dog before having him put down

[Thomas Meunier @ThomMills]

Does someone have a streaming link for Portsmouth-Sunderland? Thanks

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

the amount of United fans cryarseing over Tielemans baffles me.

A champions league quality midfielder with 7 years of PL football on his CV who constantly wants the ball and makes things happen for £35m is a no-brainer.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

annoying because I can’t find the video anywhere but there was an early viral video Tielemans at Anderlecht.

Think he was 16 and played one of the best through balls you’ll ever see. Properly carved the defence open with a daisy cut straight through the middle of the park.

[🤷🏼‍♂️ @thtbycc]

this will never get old.

[David Ornstein @David_Ornstein]

🚨 EXCL: Aston Villa in process of finalising move to sign Johan Manzambi from Freiburg. Newcastle United had agreement with #SCF but #NUFC lacked player approval. 20yo Swiss midfielder wants #AVFC & deal now accelerating towards conclusion @TheAthleticFC https://t.co/UTfbtXcSaH

[Liam Tharme @LiamTharmeCoach]

Putting your body between player and ball is something we teach at U7 for the very reason that it’s fundamental, then you control the duel. To me (and I’ve an English bias) it’s a classic winger not defending the run very well and ending up causing a tangling of legs