Here is a 2nd part to "If Jesus never claimed to be GOD ..." So the question is what DID Jesus claim and what was his source? Turns out he quoted the Hebrew Bible in many places and so did his followers. James Tabor (a Prof of early Christianity) explains.
https://t.co/TIUtXXJUkQ
Roman Christians (and Prototestant Christians of the same ilk) believe Jesus was GOD because that's the Greco-Roman version of Christianity of the early 4th century Church Councel of Nicea ... trinitarianism ... and that was forced on the pagan population of the Roman Empire.
But the nascent Christianity, of the 1st century, was unitarian (ref Mark Chapter 12 where Jesus is quoted as saying the famous Shema - that GOD is ONE). And in those 1st century writings, Jesus is never quoted as EXPLICITLY stating that he is GOD. And nowhere are his followers depicted as worshipping Jesus as GOD. So over the centuries Christians have made their own independent choice ... to have a religion based on the Hebrew Bible (like what it was in the 1st century) or to have a religion baed on the Greco-Roman Church Fathers (all of whom were antisemites). People decide for themselves and they answer to the Creator Himself ... the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
People need to understand --- AI is just a parrot ... it repeats what is found on all sources of the Internet ... and it just so happens there is much more written re: the trinitarian view of Christianity then about the unitarian view of Christianity. But as a parrot - AI cannot be a source of TRUTH ... only about what is found to be most numerous content on the Internet.
People still decide what is TRUTH to them ... after they have done their own research. This is called freedom of religion, which Roman Christianity did not allow in the 4th century under the combined power of Church & State of the Roman Empire of that time. Which is why the American founding fathers rejected the combined powers of Church and State in favor of giving freedom of religion to one and all.
@fvbirde
Greco-Roman Church Fathers were antisemites and bigoted against the Jews ... unlike the Jewish writers of the 1st century documents. Go on the internet & read the Church Fathers antisemitic writings and you'll see the Jew hatred for yourself - don't have to believe me. Telling the truth (that is so well documented) will always cause some amount of shock for those who have never been taught the truth ... but there is no need to "blame the messenger". Just do your own research about Roman Christianity to discover this for yourself.
"Do you call on the Chief Rabbis of Israel to condemn every bigoted comment made by anyone who happens to be Jewish?" Aw common --- after 2,000 years of Jew hatred - persecution and slaughter and then just constant attempts to convert us - and the Church leaders are not willing to comdemn replacement theology (aka the theology of contempt) ???
"You appear to be guided more by your own bigotry than anything else, rather like anti-Semites who collectively blame ‘the Jews’ for every Marxist etc. who happens to be Jewish." ... Huh?
I gave you credit for your own personal views in support of Jews and Israel - and you reply with calling me a bigot? I do not collectively blame anyone for the evils of individuals - but I DO call it out! And I criticize other Jews (to their face) if they are like that (i.e. in being against all Christians) because of that horrific history of the Churches (meaning the leaders) who would whip up the populace in medeival times to the slaughter of innocents.
I'm an educator on Jew hatred & antisemitism - trying to help both sides to understand this history and to (at this time) promote peace and understanding between Christians & Jews. I've been involved with Jewish Christian relations & the Interfaith Dialogue for 30+ years ... Neither side is 100% blameless, nor 100% blame worthy. Blessed are the Peace makers ...
@t_a_stephens
It’s pretty clear that Carlson’s statements, if you’re accurately representing them, are incompatible with the Anglican position. There’s certainly no ambiguity on supersessionism, which was your original incorrect allegation.
As for church officials, I don’t know what you think Tucker Carlson has to do with them, much less Candace Owens, who I believe is a Roman Catholic. Do you call on the Chief Rabbis of Israel to condemn every bigoted comment made by anyone who happens to be Jewish?
You appear to be guided more by your own bigotry than anything else, rather like anti-Semites who collectively blame ‘the Jews’ for every Marxist etc. who happens to be Jewish.
Greco-Roman Church Fathers were antisemites and bigoted against the Jews ... unlike the Jewish writers of the 1st century documents. Go on the internet & read the Church Fathers antisemitic writings and you'll see the Jew hatred for yourself - don't have to believe me. Telling the truth (that is so well documented) will always cause some amount of shock for those who have never been taught the truth ... but there is no need to "blame the messenger". Just do your own research about Roman Christianity to discover this for yourself. @t_a_stephens
What doesn't sound right ,,, that the Israeli Ministry of Interior refuses to allow these "secret Jews" to come HOME> I have an Israeli non-profit to work with these people, 21 years old, and personally I've been involved with this movement for 30 years. Can you please be specific about what you'd like to know?
@iNaomiAllen
A CNN reporter, a BBC reporter, and an Israeli commando are captured by Hamas in Gaza. The leader of the terrorists said he'd grant them each one last request before they were beheaded.
The CNN Reporter said, "I’d like one last hamburger with fries.”
The leader nodded and said it would be done.
The BBC Reporter said, "I want to describe the scene here and what’s about to happen so my government knows I did the job until the end.”
The leader nodded and said it would be done.
Then he turned to the Israeli commando and said, “And what is your final wish?”
“Kick me in the butt,” said the soldier.
“Do not mock me, Jew.”
“I’m not kidding. I want you to kick me in the butt.”
So the terrorist leader shoved him into the open and kicked him in the behind. The soldier went sprawling but rolled to his knees, pulled a pistol they hadn't found, and shot the leader dead. Then he grabbed a rifle from another terrorist and suddenly they were all dead or fleeing.
"You could've done that all along?" asked the Brit.
"Yeah, why did you want to be kicked in the butt?" asked the American.
“If I hadn't," replied the Israeli, “You two would have reported that I was the aggressor."
Welcome HOME ... and NOW all Jews have to band together to help and assist the Bnei Anousim (the secret Jews - descended from the forced converts, and who had to hide their Jewishness in the Roman Catholic countries of Latin America for the past 7 millenia). The Inquisition itself was between 15 cehtury and 19th century ... the last auto-de-fe (burning at the stake) was in Mexico City in 1830. The Ministry if Interior refuses to allow these people to "return to the land" after having gone through an Orthodox Conversion.
@katiewr31413491@Lancster_@MaxAbrahms So maybe Tucker adopted the views of the Roman Church for his position on replacement theology - but according to the record he was raised Episcopalian. He seems to be deeply entrenched in his hatred of Jews and Israel.
So the Ebionites were Jews, just like the Nazarenes, and were a sect of Jews (leaders were Jesus, James his brother, Peter, etc). The Jews who believed (in the 1st century) that Jesus was Messiah (but were wrong) were never called Christians! That term was only used for the Gentiles in Asia Minor where Paul was preaching (see the Book of Acts on this matter). Paul was also a Jew (and not a Gentile) ... but he took on being an apostle to the Gentiles on behalf of the Nazarene sect of Jews in HQ in Jerusalem. The argument about whether the Gentiles had to convert and be full Jews was an issue of those days between two schools of thought among the Pharisees - the House of Hillel and the House of Shammai. Jesus and his followers and James and all others (including Paul) followed the ruling of Hillel on this matter (and many others). That if the Gentiles were at least observant of the Laws of Noah (in particular renounced idolatry) then they also could have salvation and be a part of the Kingdom of GOD (see Romans Chapter 11 for Paul's metaphor about the Kingdom of GOD accepting those who are "grafted in"). This idea goes all the way back to the "household of Abraham" -which had genetic descandants of Abraham, and also the godfearers or spiritual descendants of Abraham. So to read Paul correctly one has to be mindful (at all times) that Paul's writings were directed to the non-Jews, as was his apostleship, & never to his brother Jews (except if he was arguing a matter of Jewish law against the House of Shammai.
@vpiprep
"Tucker Carlson’s views are his own, and they don’t appear to be consistent with the Anglican position, much less inspired by it. ... Attacking Jews, denying their relationship with God and attacking Israel is not."
And it seems to me that is your own personal opinion ... and good for you ... but what is most interesting to me is that the leadership of Anglican (and other Christian Churches) are NOT openly & publicly denouncing the views of the Tuckers, Candaces, Nicks of the world and separating themselves from such Jew hatred.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" (see the Gospel of Mark, Chapter 12) seems to have been lost in the shuffle along the way for many (if not most) so-called followers of Jesus. The silence is deafening !!!
@t_a_stephens
Tucker Carlson’s views are his own, and they don’t appear to be consistent with the Anglican position, much less inspired by it.
If Carlson wanted to politely and respectfully explain his personal religious beliefs to Jewish acquaintances, without proselytising, then that would be consistent with Anglicanism. Attacking Jews, denying their relationship with God and attacking Israel is not.
"Anglicanism is, however, more tolerant of regional and individual variation in belief than Roman Catholicism is, so although it rejects proselytism, it doesn’t ban evangelism per se, even in an institutional context."
And I think that is significant ... the leaders of Anglicanism can reject proselytism, but will not necessarily ban (as you rightly mention) evangelism!
And that is the point ... Christianity in it's nascent form of the 1st century was based on the Judaism of that day for the non-Jews ... where Paul was bringing out to the pagans of Asia Minor his teachings about the ONE GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - and the requirement for the non-Jews to (at a minimum) observe the moral code of the Hebrew Bible that was given to all mankind (including the prohibition against the worship of any god except for the Creator GOD).
For Christians, then, to tell Jews they must convert and be non-Jews (& abandon the Mt Sinai Torah) is simply a lie ... along with the statement of most Roman (trinity) Churches that if one does not accept Jesus as both the Jewish Messiah (and as GOD in human form) they are then going to hell. A quick review of all the statements of Jesus about hell will yield the opposite view --- his comments about hell were reserved for unrepentant sinners (people violating GOD's will). But that "lie" of people going to hell for not accepting Jesus is so old and has been around for such a long time that it's like culturally Christian at this point in time ... and Jews are told this all the time by both Catholic and Protestant Christians (who follow the Nicean Creed).
If they're not actively missionizing Jews (ludicrus from the view of nascent Christianity) they are always hopful the blinder (over the Jews eyes) will drop, so they can be "saved" from the fires of hell and damnation. The term used for the 1st century non-Jewish believers (in Antioch) was Christ-ian (which means followers of Christ) but due to the many changes made by the Romans (early 4th century, and based on the writings of the Greco-Roman Church Fathers) most Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus at all - they following the teachings of the Roman oriented Church.
Tucker Carlson is on record (video) saying that the Jews are not the "chosen people" --- it's the Christians who are the chosen because they choose Jesus. That is classic Greco-Roman replacement theology (aka the supercession view of Rome and many Protestant traditions). https://t.co/CeEJM7RMHe
@t_a_stephens
The Anglican positions on supersessionism and proselytism to Jews are discussed in the report from the 1988 Lambeth Conference, which was the basis for the church’s current positions.¹ ²
Anglicanism is, however, more tolerant of regional and individual variation in belief than Roman Catholicism is, so although it rejects proselytism, it doesn’t ban evangelism per se, even in an institutional context.
It’s also worth pointing out that many individual Roman Catholics actively attempt to convert Jews (and Christians of other sects) to Roman Catholicism, so the church’s official position isn’t really intellectually honest.
More generally, the most recent ADL surveys show that anti-Semitism is lowest in the traditionally Protestant countries of Northern Europe, with the top ten including the three main Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands and the UK, as well as Canada and the US. France, in tenth place, is the only one without a Protestant background, and it’s famously secular.
Much of the anti-Semitism that does exist in traditionally Anglican and Anglican-derived countries is concentrated in the Muslim minority populations, so the notion that Episcopalianism would motivate Tucker Carlson’s anti-Israel views, which could be interpreted as reflecting anti-Semitism, is rather ridiculous.
In the US, if you take estimates of anti-Semitism by ethnicity and foreign background from ADL surveys and multiply by population shares, you end up with an estimate that the absolute majority of anti-Semites in the US are non-white and disproportionately immigrants.
1. https://t.co/bp4loXmhBC
2. https://t.co/xwG7JveTmv
So I looked this up (the Anglican Communion) and found in the explanation a close tie to the Roman Catholic Church ... and in addition found nothing to suggest an anti-surpercession position. Do you have any document you can quote (and give me the link) that disavows "missions" to the Jews - in trying to convert them to become Christian?
"Yet, people on the Left are saying to Jews 'hey we’re cool with you as long as you hate the state of Israel' ”
That's because Christianity (majority) has still not renounced "replacement theology" - which says Christians have replaced the Jews, who were abandoned by GOD (they make GOD into a liar for saying to Abraham that HE was making an "eternal" covenant with Abraham and his descendants) and further that Jews have to convert to Roman Christianity or they will go to hell (which has no substantiation in the 1st century version of Christianity nor their writings). This is true for the Roman Catholic Church and the various Protestant sects that go along with this vile and jew hating ideology of the Greco-Roman antisemitic Church Fathers (all their writings can be read today online, for those who do not believe me) starting with Tertullian in the 2nd century. @DanielMillerEsq
Israel was created as a safe haven for Jews after 2/3 of European Jewry was murdered. The worldwide Jewish population still hasn’t recovered more than 80 YEARS later.
Yet, people on the Left are saying to Jews “hey we’re cool with you as long as you hate the state of Israel”
Do you realize how insane that is, particularly given that the president of the United States is an antisemite who has hosted Nazis for dinner.