Chaso

[Chaso @FastChase]

@realbenbriggs @PracticalTheolo Haha you guys love saying heretic so much, it makes you so happy. Going to be funny when you realize you were completely wrong about everything

[Chaso @FastChase]

You're actually pretty close, although I'm not sure why you think this is some kind of gotcha.

God literally sends people a delusion so they'll believe what's false (2 Thessalonians 2:11). Jesus says some people are given to understand the truth while others aren't (Matthew 13:11). Romans 11:8 says God gave people eyes that couldn't see and ears that couldn't hear.

We're also told God works ALL things according to His will (Ephesians 1:11), chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), and even prepared our good works beforehand (Ephesians 2:10).

So yes, I believe God is behind all of history, including people getting theology wrong. That doesn't mean I think I'm right about everything. I could certainly be wrong too.

And not all the early Church Fathers believed Jesus was God in the later Trinitarian sense. Many held views that would be considered unorthodox by later standards. At one point in the fourth century, Arian and other non Nicene positions had enormous influence, including among bishops and emperors. So the idea that the early Church was unanimously Trinitarian simply isn't historically accurate.

The difference is that I believe God ultimately reconciles everyone (Colossians 1:20), so people being wrong in the meantime doesn't somehow derail His plan.

I'm genuinely not seeing the problem here.rrr

[Chaso @FastChase]

Sure, fair question. And you're probably not going to like my answer, which is fine, because I think if people really consider the implications of my position, they'll realize that if I'm right and they're wrong, that's ultimately good news for everyone.

I'm a determinist and a universalist. I believe God is ultimately responsible for bringing about His purposes, including our faith. Paul even tells us that God apportions faith to each person (Romans 12:3), and that believing is graciously granted to us (Philippians 1:29).

So I don't particularly care if people interpret Scripture incorrectly in the meantime. If someone misunderstands God and consequently faces judgment, I believe even that judgment serves a purpose within God's larger plan. Ultimately, God reconciles all things to Himself (Colossians 1:20), and He will become "All in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28).

In other words, I don't believe God is running some grand theological exam where the eternal fate of humanity depends on everyone arriving at the correct interpretation.

So no, I don't need an infallible human interpreter. People can read Scripture, examine the evidence, disagree with me, and reach whatever conclusions they're persuaded of. I can think they're mistaken without believing their mistake somehow frustrates God's ultimate purpose.

And as for the Church giving us the Bible, I don't find that argument particularly compelling. The Scriptures were already circulating and recognized among believers before later church councils formally identified the canon. Recognizing authoritative writings isn't the same thing as making them authoritative.

For all I care, God could have used Swahili shamans to compile those already existing writings. It wouldn't change a thing about whether the writings themselves were inspired or true. The authority of Scripture doesn't depend on the theological infallibility of whoever happened to collect it.

The difference between our positions is that I don't believe God's ultimate success depends on everyone getting their theology right in this lifetime.

[Chaso @FastChase]

@realbenbriggs @PracticalTheolo Yes I'm "some flavor of Sola Scriptura" haha.

Here comes the hilarious "and who do you think created your Bible?" Comment

[Chaso @FastChase]

The fact that you probably patted yourself on the back after posting this is pretty funny. You do realize that just a few verses earlier, Jesus calls the Father “my God” (John 20:17), right? And John literally tells us the point of his Gospel is to show that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). But sure, let's ignore all that and pretend Thomas just settled the Trinity debate.

[Chaso @FastChase]

@realbenbriggs @PracticalTheolo A concept he decided to keep completely hidden from the NT

[Chaso @FastChase]

They love boasting about Arius supposedly being physically assaulted and if they found out that he was indeed poisoned they'd probably celebrate it. Saya a lot about these groups.

Although I guess it makes sense given they believe anyone who has unitarian leanings will go to eternal hell.

[Chaso @FastChase]

@Down4cards @24Dparks Goga Bitazde can be gotten

[Chaso @FastChase]

@DrAlanKurschner @nickuva No, it doesn't

[Chaso @FastChase]

@Be_Like_JChrist Assuming you believe people condemn themselves to hell yes?

[Chaso @FastChase]

@HedgehogDogs @Ralph_MasonJr @pelinka Goga Bitazde

[Chaso @FastChase]

@Ralph_MasonJr @pelinka Goga Bitazde

[Chaso @FastChase]

@KanyeWestJS @Mr8113439708 His name is Goga Bitazde

[Chaso @FastChase]

@wordsofthislife Even in the early church people were falling asleep during sermons haha

[Chaso @FastChase]

@grok Can you fact-check these claims against the original sources and their full context? Do the quotes actually show Christians asking deceased saints to pray for them? Also, verify the dates, especially the disputed dating of Sub tuum praesidium. I'm particularly interested in whether there's evidence this practice goes back to the apostles or whether it appeared later. Please use historical scholarship rather than Catholic or Protestant apologetics.

[Chaso @FastChase]

@ChristInflamed @PracticalTheolo @grok Lol how? You haven't even said one thing of substance. Try making a positive claim of some sort. Guessing you won't.

[Chaso @FastChase]

@ChristInflamed @PracticalTheolo @grok Haha all I did was ask grok a question, you're the one that got offended. So who's not equipped? Given you can't even answer a question or read....

[Chaso @FastChase]

@ChristInflamed @PracticalTheolo @grok You are not explaining what you're trying to convey in any way so I'll just assume you don't know what you're talking about

[Chaso @FastChase]

Jake we need your take on Mumpfield :)
@allinkid

[Chaso @FastChase]

@ChristInflamed @PracticalTheolo @grok Which beliefs are you referring to?