@kevgk2 I think in some sense the appeal of art is its superficiality, it's a sensual endeavor. It's a carnal excitement of the senses. The sensual exchange between the art and the viewer is what makes it a worthwhile experience, not reading info about context and interpretations.
There is beauty in letting art speak for itself by feeling it in the moment without understanding the process behind it. That's what makes it magic. Engaging with the metacontext is the job of the academic and tradesman, not of the common man who marvels at your work.
@kevgk2 I think I agree that saying art is deep is a bit of a tautology. Anything can be infinitely deep, you can always understand a bit more about everything, but I don't think that's the core of art's appeal and an expectation we should demand of people.
@PaoloNewfoundl1 I am not saying ER is a game with a bad art direction. I generally like it, and some of Fromsoft's peaks can be found in it. I do think it's a bit too theatrical and epic at times, almost touching a chuuni levels of calculated "coolness".
St. Trina is an exception to that.
@mousquitwo@Grifballz WeakER, not straight up weak. Again, St. Trina is probably one of the best designs Fromsoft came up with. Too bad her side of the DLC seemed a bit unfinished.
@Why_me219@Patrick70725978 I do have a particular taste, yes. I don't think anyone should be forced to pander to me though. Pandering to me would probably not be a financially sound decision.
@MantisSqualid@Dave_Johnson_74 Ds1 had a grounding to it that Fromsoft hasn't replicated, possibly because it was unintentional and a product of their technical limitations. It felt mythological rather than fantastical.
@raceplaylover@Kahir__ I don't disagree, but citing dark souls lore to defend iteration seems ironic. Linking the fire is a form of reiterating an old world where what is now is but a shadow of what once was.
@sandsandmansand Could be, he's still working on his ideal fantasy game and the Souls series + ER seem to have been stepping stones towards realizing that vision
@Donnyyoung_@ShadAkuma@Patrick70725978 There's nothing wrong with it. It just feels like it's an expectation people have and I think that limits artistic vision. Part of it is that people just genuinely seem to have a hard time engaging with something that doesn't remind relieve tension in an easily digestible manner.
@goldentrumpcalf I am the one arguing that not everyone needs to enjoy art the same way. But just because you analyze things doesn't make you less consumerist. Consumerism has nothing to do with the depth of engagement. Op was the one who could not fathom loving art without deconstructing it.
@L4liL0psi Everyone but Zork has a very similar silhouette (excluding clothing) including 2 and a half bald dudes. At least Nightreign's characters had more individuality. This is presumptuous though, who knows how it'll look on release.
@raceplaylover It seems like since Bloodborne there's been an increased process of flanderization and demystification taking hold. There seems to be less restraint with some stylistic choices. There are still some gems though, I think St. Trina is one of Fromsoft's best designs.
@raceplaylover@Kahir__ I don't wanna criticize this aspect too much though cause I understand Miyazaki has an ideal game in mind and the souls series + ER are attempts at refining the technical elements to create that perfect fantasy game. I respect that and I hope he's able to execute his vision.
@raceplaylover@Kahir__ Well, I didn't wanna go there, but it's ironic 'cause fromsoft reutilizes ideas a fair bit. Not talking about assets, but even lore wise you have a lot of recycling and visually too of course. Sekiro and AC were a breath of fresh air though.
@Kahir__@raceplaylover I was going to quote that but I'm not sure if that's a philosophy Miyazaki applies to everything or was particular to that case. I resonate with it though. But for example it makes sense for BB to go with insane grotesque gore stuff, so I don't wanna hold it as a universal thing.
@Godswasright@Grifballz Yeah I'm aware. I'm definitely someone who believes individual artistic vision is extremely important. That's also why I think visually speaking DS II was a big downgrade. You need someone with good taste to direct and tie everything together.
@space_kick solid and refined idea of what the whole should look like. I am not saying Fromsoft's games suck in this area, I just think they're losing their edge, which I guess is inevitable. I also think they probably haven't reached their peak either, so I'm glad they're experimenting.
@space_kick I fully acknowledge this a personal opinion. To answer I think restraint is a core aspect of something being sophisticated. Gaudiness, excessive baroqueness can certainly stimulate the senses but I think a great artistic vision is able to depend less on spectacle and more on a